BB X Enigma project, beware nasty pics

[GekkoGalaksen]

Thank you Paul

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

sounds like another enigma lynch mob story to me.

I agree that this problem has nothing to do with the morph itself, and is most likeley an incubation issue as stated, or a congenital (non-genetic) problem with one of the parent. Is this only happening with one male or female?

Did you open the eggs yourself, or did the hatchlings try to come out of the eggs themselves and die? If you opened the eggs, what condition were the eggs in, and how long were they incubating? At what temperature?

Also, how are you supplementing your adult breeders (especially the mother)?

Sorry for all the questions, but it will help us narrow down where the problem could lie.

 

[Albey]

I bred Enigma to Tremper Blazing Blizzard and Enigma to Las Vegas Blazing Blizzard this year. I have hatched out seven of the Tremper’s and eight of the Las Vegas (with eggs still incubating), and not one baby was deformed in any way. That looks like an incubation problem to me.

I am however very sorry for your bad luck.

 

[Gregg M]

well, then tell me why is it that all my other eggs hatch fine and I'm getting Enigma's and normals but it's only out of this combo that the hatchlings either die just after popping out the egg, after hatching or the egg collapses prior to hatching?

Usually when they go almost full term and die or do not finish forming, it is due to a sudden temp and or humidity fluctuation... I know thhat some have the tendency to add more water to incubation substrate midway or near the end of the term... This can and does cause developing leos in the egg to die...

Also if the temp spikes too much during incubation it can cause death and deformities in developing leos... Sometimes temps can spike because of outside temps and system failures especially when using cheap production line incubators like Hovas...

Again, before pointing a finger at genetics, look at what you are doing first... I realize its a hard pill to get down but you need to understand that the problem can be caused by you not doing something right...

 

[lytlesnake]

Aw man, I'm sorry to see that you're having problems. That really sucks. It does look like a possible issue of high humidity causing the eggs to collapse. I also agree with everything paulnj said.

 

[Stevie]

We've had a bad pairing before, no Enigma genes though, it's very sad. Sometimes nature just doesn't agree with us. I hope your other pairings have far better results.

This says it all for me.... To bad Rene, but luckely the blazing enigma in Nijmegen was very beautiful!!!!

Greets,

Stevie

 

[Ian S.]

I would look more into your incubation methods before saying it is a Enigma genetics issue... I am sure the majority here will agree...

agreed!

 

[lion lizard]

okay, maybe it is the temp, the humidity or just something else I can't put my finger on. How is it possible that there are other eggs in the same container also from the same enigma male and they hatch out just fine except for the BB X Enigma?

The hatchlings tried to pop out themsleves and did make the cut in the egg but never came out, I have also had a couple hang out the egg halfway and die and die quite fast after hatching, but again, only from the BB X Enigma combo.

I have Vionate from alberto and leopard gecko dust from T-rex. Further more I give my mealworms carrots, pieces of oranges and apples. Every now and then a pinky and sometimes sub adult grasshoppers.

You would think they get enough healthy stuff. I have three younger BB females from Ray Hine and when they are old enough I willtry this again and see what happens.

 

[paulnj]

Rene, that really does suck, but I think the issue may be the female if your enigma is producing with other females. Have you tried rebreeding since the first breeding?

I too have hatched enigmas from BB females, but my male isn't a het BB.

 

[jmlslayer]

Well i have heard from "someone" that the leo dust from T-Rex cause's low fertility

 

[lion lizard]

Well i have heard from "someone" that the leo dust from T-Rex cause's low fertility

That can't be it, I only started with this 2 weeks ago and this problem had been going now for 2-3 months.

But this morning I was surprised to find another Blazing Enigma in the female incubator but with most of her guts outside her body and yes, dead again. The chance of hitting this combo with a male Enigma proven het raptor/eclipse and proven het blizzard are very small.

This just drives me to insanity! Either my females are not 100% it would have to be both of them because the male has done his job with other animals just fine. Photobucket is down at the moment and I will post a pic later on. This one was fully developed the only problem was that it's guts were mostly outside the body.

 

[lytlesnake]

This is very sad. I think I'd give that female(s) a rest. I would not breed that gecko ever again. What is her weight/age BTW? I'm not trying to be rude, but those pics are really tough to look at. If you want to post more it's totally up to you, but I think we all get the idea. These geckos are hatching out with major problems. Nobody can say for sure why, but I don't think it's ethical to do any further breeding of that animal in hopes of producing some exotic morph. Best of luck with the rest of your hatchlings.

 

[fallen_angel]

I can't even imagine how horrific it must be to go to your incubator and find this, and so often! Best wishes to you, I think it really must be something with the BB female.

I'm not trying to be rude, but those pics are really tough to look at. If you want to post more it's totally up to you, but I think we all get the idea.

I agree, don't worry about posting more pics please!

 

[Stevie]

Well i have heard from "someone" that the leo dust from T-Rex cause's low fertility

If the fertility is influenced by anything, you wouldn't get eggs that hatch, but just remain unfertilised or die in a very early stage. Besides that, I know Rene for a couple of years now and I've seen him breed to many leopardgeckos to think that he would make a mistake with incubating....In my humble opinion, this is just a case of tough luck. The animals are indeed capable to produce healthy ofspring; I've seen the Blazing Enigma last sunday, but sometimes genes just don't match (like Mel&Keith stated earlier)!

Greets,

Stevie

 

[lion lizard]

ok, I won't post anymore halloween pics.

The females are around 10 months old right now and weigh 60'ish grams.

It's just really annoying, what are the odds of getting tremper blazing enigma's out of this combo and then 1 dead and luckily 1 alive.

 

[Stitch]

10 months is pretty early to breed a female. 60 grams is a good weight but you still have to look at age. So the young female may be the problem.

I'd say no more mating this year for her. Wait until next season and try again with this male (or another if you want). But there's a good chance this is could be happening due to her age. Some females can handle while others can't.

 

[Mel&Keith]

There can just be so many different variables that cause deformities like that you'll probably never be certain about the cause. We had a first year breeder who's eggs all died about 3 weeks gestation. I have no idea why. She was just a tangerine, nothing exotic. We only got 2 babies from her, the rest of the eggs all died so we retired her.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

How is it possible that there are other eggs in the same container also from the same enigma male and they hatch out just fine except for the BB X Enigma?

There could be many reasons why one particular female is producing weak and/or non-viable offspring. It could be that she is young, and the quality of her ovum are sub-standard. It could be the way her body metabolizes the supplements you are giving her. I agree that you should probably give her a break from breeding until she is a little older.

 

[DAWNoftheLEO]

Sorry to hear of the misfortunes. Give her a break. Sounds like bad luck possibly with supplements or absorptions there of. Some may say inc medium, temp spikes etc (we won't really know, you would be the best to know as the husbandry is in your hands)((Everyone here is very knowledgable and all we can DO, is make educated guesses))

Post any pics you'd like, it is not against TOS, as well I personally think it reminds us ALL, that what we are working with, is indeed alongside nature and sometimes things just don't work out. Another reason I feel these pics are imparative, is to show some of the newer folk, that breeding takes a lot more than just KEEEPING a pet, and be PREPARED before jumping head-in.

 

[lion lizard]

breeding takes a lot more than just KEEEPING a pet, and be PREPARED before jumping head-in.

you got that completely right!