Brittney.......and I don't mean Spears

[dprince]

So I know I'm the new girl on the block, so I hope you all don't think ill of me.

I just read this thread http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=14007 - it's about Brittney G, who I'm about to throw under a train.

Paul, I read the PM from her to you about me, as her "mentor"...........it kind of frightens me a little. I barely knew this chick at the time she wrote it, and she really freaked me out after the thing on Fauna. I mean, Christ, I had just sold her some geckos - how on earth I was a mentor, I have no idea. She had called me about the issue with Brandon, curiously omitting the part where she had only just received the geckos - and telling me that he had essentially said "fuck you" when she asked if he was going to do anything about it. That's when I recommended Fauna as a last resort, since she had supposedly tried everything else. Little did I know this issue was literally HOURS old, not the weeks old she insinuated. And Brandon said no such thing of the sort.....at least not by that point. But that is neither here nor there........

BTW, I had recommended you Paul as someone to get snow bells from. For that, I will lash myself 1,000 times with a wet noodle. And when you meet me in person, you have my permission to slap me.

OK, enough of the history. So she PM'd me a while ago, asking me if I'd be interested in having her do my logos, business cards and such. I said OK. My gut was telling me to be careful, but I figured she'd learned her lesson from Fauna. Wrongo.

She started work without a contract. BIG mistake on both of our parts. She was supposed to help me do business cards and my logo. In exchange, she was going to get credit towards a SSBA female. When she came to my place, she took pictures of my geckos (which she initially said she was going to charge me for, then told me she'd do them for free), and she designed some rockin' cards. While she was here, I told her if she helped me with updating my website, and helping me out (nothing specific), I'd give her the SSBA. BIG mistake on my part.

She designed the logo for me. She did the cards, T-shirt graphics, show sign, GF banner (which I'm not happy with), buttons for my website, and a "bonus" bumper sticker. At some point, without asking me if there was anything else I wanted/needed, she decided she was done. She demanded the gecko - as she considered the project done. As I didn't feel that what she did warranted what she was getting, I asked her for the business card file so I could update the cards myself. She said she wasn't comfortable with that, and wanted to know when she could come pick up the gecko. I told her I wasn't satisfied yet, and that after I got the business card file, THEN I would consider the transaction complete. Her favorite word during this whole fun exchange was "implied" contract. WTF?!?!?! How the FUCK was I supposed to know what was "standard" in the graphics industry? She was incredibly condescending to me, like I'm supposed to just KNOW shit. Apparently, I'm also supposed to read minds (which, BTW, I suck at). She didn't like that. We were at a stalemate.

I came up with a compromise; I would give her $400-500 in gecko trade and she wouldn't have to give up the file. The last SSBA female I saw was listed for $900 (I think it was yours, Paul), and that was the price I quoted for her. Since there are no others for sale, it was the best I could do.

She decided that no, she did want the SSBA and was willing to give me the card file. She did, but not without first demanding that she get to choose WHICH gecko she got. WTF? How many SSBA's does she think I have?

She then insinuated that I was "unethical" as a breeder AND a seller because I wasn't willing to drop everything and take pictures of the "available" geckos. And - you guessed it - she had never mentioned, in written or verbal conversations - that she expected or would even like to be able to choose. At this point, I'm flaming mad. So, I went out and took pictures of my "available" SSBA females - including the 18 gram vs female that I was going to send her, a 6 gram ts female, a 4 gram ts female, and a 2 gram ts female. Shockingly, she choose the 18 gram female.

I will be shipping the gecko tomorrow to Marcia the Saint so I don't have to look at Brittney's face, and I can be done with it. She is extra reactive, completely wishy - washy, and socially inept. I don't wish her ill, good luck to her, but I am so FUCKING DONE. :furious3:

BTW, the cherry on top was when she told me (while she was here taking pictures) that she'd love to get some enigmas from me. Heck, I even told her she could come over and pick her own out when they were big enough!! At some point during our business transaction, she emailed me to call her. I ASSUMED it was for the work she was doing for me. Not so much........she was calling me, all excited, because she was getting a big tax rebate back, and she was buying not one buy TWO enigmas from Mike R., and she wanted to know what else I had available (instead of the SSBA) that she could breed to these guys. :wall:

Worst. Customer Serivce. Ever.

 

[Mel&Keith]

Fuck her. Hmm...maybe that sounds too harsh. What I mean is fuck people who have zero customer service/business ethics and happen to be pains in the asses. I feel so lucky that we had our site designed and built in days and without a contract (just an idea of what the value would be) and when I sent a list of what we had to trade all he asked for was a SGA female. Maybe a $250 value. I just sent a box full of geckos and we've had 0 problems. Many of these young kids (I pretend that I'm not included in that demographic) that do graphic design are trying to take advantage of people who don't have computer skills. There is legislation about "Orphaned Works" being proposed that may drastically change that world though.

Ah, sorry you had such a bad experience with her Debbie! I would have returned all of her designs and said, "I'm sorry, maybe you should write up a contract in the future."

 

[o0 Ryan 0o]

Ugh, that sucks Debbie. She is 100% fake 100 times over, I can't stand her. A lot of her stories have holes in them, and she strikes me as psycho.

If you need any help with anything just let me know. I work without contracts, but I'm not crazy...just a little busy at times.

I think the thing that gets me the most. She came to me wanting me to design her everything, but yet she's a designer now. Most designers I know don't dish their work off to someone else, not a personal/hobby project at least. I don't really get her...I just smell a lot of drama...and poo.

I'm sorry, but you should really learn how to read minds. It would solve so many problems PS - You can subtract the last two sentences into "I'm sorry" if you'd like. I was just trying to fit a smiley into this post.

 

[PaulSage]

BTW, I had recommended you Paul as someone to get snow bells from. For that, I will lash myself 1,000 times with a wet noodle. And when you meet me in person, you have my permission to slap me.

Nah... You've endured enough as it is.

I had actually sent her pictures and info on the snow bells after she kept harassing me, but then she never replied. I've been completely ignoring her ever since.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

I stand by my original thoughts about Brittney...

she's a whack job. :wacko:

 

[dprince]

Thanks guys.

Maybe I should return all her logos and shit.............but damn, I already printed up the cards!!!! Son of a heffer!!!!! Does that mean I'd have to throw them out? *evil plotting*

Ryan, that's extra interesting that she came to you asking for help. She told me she's been in this business for 5 years (would have started when she was 16), and acted like I was a complete moron for not knowing shit. "Gee Deb, it sounds like you are unaware of the protocol for design work contracts."

"Gee Brit, first off, only my FRIENDS call me Deb, and secondly, no fucking kidding that I'm not familiar with this shit. And oh, I don't read minds well. Like at all." OK, that's not what I said, but I damn well thought it. I used my inside words...........

I'm with you, Jeremy. She's a whack-job. *pinches self and reminds self to LISTEN to that nagging little voice inside her head and gut*

 

[o0 Ryan 0o]

Ugh, I lost my post being idle here at work and got logged out. Maybe you could just give me a call this evening any time after 5 EST 717.309.8753 :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I'm so sorry this whole situation with Brittney has been such a nightmare for you, Deb! It's a shame it has escalated into your not wanting to used her material for your business, and I can certainly understand why. I guess it's a lesson for all of us about having written contracts with business dealings... even between friends and acquaintences. I know I certainly will!

Over the past few months, I have come to know Brittney after a few very frustrating and aggravating dealings with her. I agree, in many ways she is a 'wack-job'... but the saddest part is that she knows she is. It was hard to get to know her, but now that I do, I have realized that she is simply very young, immature, and socially challenged. She is extremely bright, talented, and sensitive... but has a very difficult time staying focused and making decisions. I'm not a shrink, but I honestly thing the girl is either ADD, bipolar, or even both.

I think the biggest mistake Brittney made was not making it clear, preferably in writing, exactly what she was going to do for you and what she expected in compensation upon your final approval of her work. My guess it she won't do that again. She is going to have to learn the hard way if she is going to start a business for herself. I can only imagine the scenarios when she begins to deal with customers when she starts selling geckos!

Long story, I learned my lesson when I hired a company to re-design my website, and my application would not work on their 'control panel', and I was unable to update my website. After nearly 2 months of dealing with tech support, management, and accounting, I gave up and asked for all the files for my website design. After all, I PAID for it! Guess what? It turned out that they own the design, and even though I had exclusive rights to use it, they wouldn't give it to me unless I paid for them to relinquish the copyright. I was simply SOL.

If I ever have any work done, even if it's in trade, I'm going to make a point to have everything spelled out... what service(s) are being done, what's included and not included, a scheduled timeline and completion date, and what the compensation will be. Just like any other job that would be contracted.

I've seen too many people get burned in the leopard gecko community lately on a simple 'handshake' agreement. It really breaks my heart that these misunderstandings or even treachery have created rifts between us. It seems like we should be able to make a deal without all the hassles.

 

[dprince]

I agree with everything you've said, Marcia. The problem *I* have is that she's not learning from her mistakes. She needs therapy, or a swift kick in the behind - I'm not entirely sure what her issues are. I honestly can't WAIT until she starts selling geckos. And I really DO wish upon her customers like her. Perhaps she will learn from that? One can only hope.

She is very immature, very socially retarded, and has befriended people like Matt (leopardbreeder) because that is about the age she is socially, albeit not chronologically. And the fact that she is lying to someone REALLY sits poorly with me - she told me she's been in the design business for 5 years. She asked Ryan to help her out with designs for herself. Which is it?

And mark my words, Marcia - she'll be at your house more often than not since you are now her "mentor." (they're buying a house pretty close to Marcia - run away, run away!!!!!!!!) :main_laugh:

Like I said, I don't wish her ill (well, except for a plethera of customers like herself), but I'm also waiting for the day she blows on out of here. I imagine she will continue to shoot herself in the foot until all she has left is a stump.

 

[Mel&Keith]

And mark my words, Marcia - she'll be at your house more often than not since you are now her "mentor." (they're buying a house pretty close to Marcia - run away, run away!!!!!!!!) :main_laugh:

That's one of the main reasons we don't allow people to pick up geckos at our house! Most people are a little crazy. (Hence, the padded walls in here...)

 

[o0 Ryan 0o]

That's one of the main reasons we don't allow people to pick up geckos at our house! Most people are a little crazy. (Hence, the padded walls in here...)

Agreed. We always meet at a public place.

And the fact that she is lying to someone REALLY sits poorly with me - she told me she's been in the design business for 5 years. She asked Ryan to help her out with designs for herself. Which is it?

I was trying to clarify earlier with my post I lost. She contacted me for a website and not everything. She said she had a logo but I was welcome to "jazz it up." She also said that she's not "web savvy" and she "doesn't know how to do much myself to make it worth it." I'm sure once I started though I would have ended up designing everything though. I just thought it was funny that shortly after I said no she publicly became a designer and started looking for work???

The other thing I was commenting on was her degree. I understand she does print and photography, so saying she's not web savvy is a lie IMO. I'll just make this short, but if she went to some sort of design or photography school she would have learned some web design. You always have some classes to learn web so you can create your online portfolios and it just makes you well rounded. Plus if she can design in Photoshop, freaking photoshop can turn your designs into a site and all you have to do is link things up. Sure it might not be the most efficient way at times, but it easily done. So my question was, does she have a degree or is she self proclaimed because that would explain a lot. I'm not trying to flaunt degrees or anything here, that's not me, I just wanted to catch her on something...else.

Regarding contracts now...lol

The problem with web and design contracts though, is that they can be over 20 pages long. There's a mountain of possibilities and scenarios. I think you can end up being triple screwed. One, contracts are rarely ever air tight and rarely do things ever go 100% as planned. That leads to number two, if you forget something it's just going to get jammed down your throat with a "well, you didn't say." Even if you try to cover everything, three becomes a huge contract is just going to scare someone away in my opinion.

The only other thing you could do is say hey if things are forgotten or unmet rewriting the contract is a must. Then you're looking at multiple versions/contracts and sign offs that make you look bad again. Contracts are typically individual as well, so each job would need to be different. With the amount of time wasted on the contracts I could have half a site finished.

Corporate and more mainstream projects a contract would be beneficial mainly because most people are looking for them, but in the hobby amongst friends and acquaintances I just do the work and worry about getting compensated later. The only time I do things different is when there's money involved. I like to have half at the middle point and the other half before final delivery. Sure you should treat every job the "same" even if it's for friends, but it just seems so pointless. Everyone always goes overboard on their payments as well. I can agree to a couple and then I get a box full.

Yes I've gotten nipped in the butt before, but typically I'm happy to just start helping. I have a lot of trust in people when I shouldn't, but it's much easier for me to just work on the fly. It just feels a damned if you do damned if you don't situation no matter what. It sucks because you want to do the right thing.

Now my brain hurts, but hey at least this work day is almost over YAY!

 

[nwheat]

Wow. I really thought she'd learned from that fiasco on Fauna. There was so much drama and then nothing for months. Guess not. She'd asked me if I wanted her to come take pictures of my geckos and I was really considering it - she is quite good. Fortunately, I haven't had time for something like that.

I'm so sorry that this has turned into such a big mess, Debbie!

 

[dprince]

I was trying to clarify earlier with my post I lost. She contacted me for a website and not everything. She said she had a logo but I was welcome to "jazz it up." She also said that she's not "web savvy" and she "doesn't know how to do much myself to make it worth it." I'm sure once I started though I would have ended up designing everything though. I just thought it was funny that shortly after I said no she publicly became a designer and started looking for work???

Thanks for the clarification, Ryan. See, here's the thing. She was telling me (and tried showing me when she was at my house) this website she had just designed for this guy with this zillion dollar comic book collection. So she goes from not being able to do a website (or not much) to brokering out her services? It ticks me off, because where is the truth in it? It's conveluded at best. She also told me she had just started the photography thing, so........yet another time she's "mispoke" or WTF ever term is the "in" word for lying these days. :main_angry:

The truth is, I don't give a rip if she's been doing it since she was in diapers, or if she just learned yesterday, JUST TELL THE TRUTH. This whole thing has been nothing but problematic because A) nothing was in writing (even if it wasn't the full contract, something should have been in writing - expectations on BOTH sides, whatever) and B) she has made huge assumptions about shit and then gotten pissy because I didn't read her mind. To say things like we had agreed that she could pick out her own gecko - it's a flat out lie. She never even MENTIONED that - not once. Not in a conversation, not in an email, NOTHING. (I have saved every email this chick has ever sent me. Spank me for not listening to my instincts!!!!!!!!)
Of course, calling me an unethical breeder and seller for not sending her pictures was just more icing on an already heavy cake.

Brittney and I were never friends; she was just a gal who had bought geckos from me. Especially in situations like this, having things in writing is super important, IMHO.

Man, am I wishing I had just talked to Ryan in the first place. *kicks self* I'll still be using her logos and stuff - like I said, her works is great and Christ, I've already "paid" for it - but I will NOT be promoting her business in any way when asked. I've already had the thread deleted that talked about The Gecko Prince facelift (thanks Mel!!!) so that no one can see that and think that I support her work. And if someone asks me how it really is - no holds barred. Though I might use my inside words........:main_laugh:

 

[dprince]

Wow. I really thought she'd learned from that fiasco on Fauna. There was so much drama and then nothing for months. Guess not. She'd asked me if I wanted her to come take pictures of my geckos and I was really considering it - she is quite good. Fortunately, I haven't had time for something like that.

I'm so sorry that this has turned into such a big mess, Debbie!

Thanks Nancy. She is pretty good, but the strings attached might not be worth it - only speaking from experience. :main_laugh:

I really thought she'd figured it out too - at least this time it didn't end up on Fauna (and I've been checking, believe you me!!!)

 

[nwheat]

That's the thing about her and her drama - it makes you wonder if she's going to get pushed out of shape and run to the boi!

I don't plan on having her do any pictures for me. I really do like to do everything myself - even if the pictures or designs aren't as good as they could be.

 

[o0 Ryan 0o]

Debbie I'm heading home now. Give me a call in 30min (717.309.8753).

 

[dprince]

Okey doke. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Mel&Keith]

She just emailed me asking if I'd like to trade our Striped Snow Bell Enigma (which I have listed for $1000) for website design! I politely declined her offer. LOL

 

[dprince]

GOOD CALL. :main_thumbsup:

 

[KelliH]

Well, some of you are not going to like this but Brittney is going to be helping me with something regarding GF and she is going to have to have access to the admin cp temporarily. That means that there is a chance she could see these posts.

I do not want that to happen, so I will be deleting this thread sometime on Monday. I understand that there have been some issues between her and a couple of you but frankly I cannot let someone else's personal stuff that has nothing to do with me affect me. I have gotten to know Brittney a little bit recently and I like her a lot and like the work she did for Debbie and also for Mike R.

Anyway, I wanted to let everyone know that it is possible that she could see this and also any other posts made in the RR. I don't know that she will, but it's possible. Please call or pm me if anybody has any problem with my decision to delete this thread.