Bruce Stephenson vs GKO Reptiles EVERYONE PLEASE READ

[gko reptiles]

Here is a picture of the email Bruce sent to us directly after we offered him half of his money back and the one live gecko. (Note the time and Date that correspond)

Also, here are the pictures of the packaging and deceased Leo's...

 

[Montezuma]

The thing about bruce is, he IS well known to be a liar and a supporter of criminals.

He IS a tattletail and is not really a nice guy at all.

I would most definately take this to fauna.

Trust me on this one.

Unless, of course, that was I flying pig I saw today and you are lying.

Of course, the simple fact that he did NOT sign for your geckos, AS IS STIPULATED in your TOS, viods ANY warranty you may owe him REGARDLESS of any packaging or delivery issues. HE did not sign. HE voided your warranty.

It's really as simple as that. You owe him nothing.

I don't know him that well Wes, so I am quite impartial to both parties. I have no clue as to what he has done before in business practices. I am just calling it as I see it.
Especially after seeing the box that the geckos were shipped in I can tell you they weren't properly shipped. 1/2 inch stryrofoam is absolutely worthless, you need a minimum of 3/4 insulation styrofoam(not that cheap chunky stuff) to ship in extreme temps (85+ and 40-). If that IS 3/4inch then I applaud you for getting 3/4 inch but you need to get the better stuff...

 

[gko reptiles]

. The boy woke me up and admitted to making a mistake in sending them to be signed for and accepted responsibility for not knowing that if he insured the geckos that a signature would be required.

Hi everyone this is Phillip Hemingway. I just arrived home from work and I just read the whole post. I noticed a little thing that Bruce said. Here he said the boy woke me up. First off, I am not a boy but I will let that one slide. Second, he said I woke him up. I woke up early to watch the tracking the day it was supposed to be delivered. When I saw, sometime between 9 and 10am, that the package was not delivered because no one was there to sign for it, I called him. If I woke him up he was not able to recieve the geckos on the first delivery because he was sleeping. I don't know about anyone else but If I spent a "small fortune" on geckos I would be up and ready for them.

 

[wilomn]

I only know bruce for what he is and the other couple not at all.

That is a standard shipping box with two icepacks in it.

That was all that was necessary for those geckos to arrive alive in the AM as THEY DID.

It is unfortunate that they died, but the fault is 100% bruce. Had he signed they would be alive.

 

[gko reptiles]

When we first purchased our shipping supplies, we asked other breeders what to use. Out of all of the packages that we have recieved have been packed with either 1/2" or popcorn and 2 boxes. We have recieved packages from many breeders, including Kelli at HISS and The Urban Gecko. We assumed that these breeders knew what they were doing when they sent us packages with 1/2" insulation. Sorry for naming names, but if anyone I am speaking of would like to post, or any other breeders for that matter, on this subject, please feel free.

 

[KelliH]

I have to say that I have sold to both Bruce and GKO Reptiles and both were fantastic customers to deal with. My thoughts on this situation are very clear and concise. If I know that I am to be receiving animals on a particular morning, I make sure that I am home and ready to receive them. Now, some things are out of our control so to speak (what if Bruce was in the bathroom, what if an emergency came up and he had to leave etc, when Fed Ex rang the doorbell). Still, I feel as a customer it is my responsibility to make sure I am home and able to receive the animals I know are arriving that morning when they arrive. If GKO's written terms on their website state that their live arrival guarantee is null and void if the package isn't signed for, then the situation is pretty clear. I ship all my geckos, no matter the value, signature required. I do not want my animals left on someone's porch, I want them signed for and received by the buyer.

Sorry Bruce, I just truly feel you are in the wrong on this one. Especially if they offered to meet you halfway on the deal and you declined. I just don't see how any of it is GKO's fault. They did the proper thing by shipping their animals signature required, I expect no less from anyone that ships geckos to me. BTW, Christine, do you have a copy of the email where you guys offered Bruce half the money back? It might be helpful if you go ahead and post that here.

 

[KelliH]

Especially after seeing the box that the geckos were shipped in I can tell you they weren't properly shipped. 1/2 inch stryrofoam is absolutely worthless, you need a minimum of 3/4 insulation styrofoam(not that cheap chunky stuff) to ship in extreme temps (85+ and 40-). If that IS 3/4inch then I applaud you for getting 3/4 inch but you need to get the better stuff...

We use 1/2 inch styrofoam insulated boxes and we don't have a problem. I have shipped a lot of reptiles in those same boxes from Superior, in all kinds of temps too. It works for me.

 

[Montezuma]

We use 1/2 inch styrofoam insulated boxes and we don't have a problem. I have shipped a lot of reptiles in those same boxes from Superior, in all kinds of temps too. It works for me.

In a test with 2 exact boxes with thermostats inside, one with 1/2 inch and the other with 3/4 inch, sitting side by side in direct sunlight the temp in the 1/2 inch box was 5 degrees higher than the 3/4 inch in roughly one hour. The outside temp was roughly 110 that day...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

OK, I'm putting on my moderator hat temporarily to remind you all that some of the content in this thread is in violation of the GeckoForums.net TOS. More specifically:

*Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Heated discussions and/or debates are fine, but please stick to the issues and do not make it personal. Threatening another member with physical violence is not allowed, nor is incessant harassment (aka trolling).

Please refrain form the personal attacks and name-calling... thank you.

 

[geckogod2]

When I order reptiles I make sure I am around for delivery and that goes for the feeders too. If for some reason I can't be present when they are going to be delivered, I have someone around who can sign for them. why are we debating the packaging.. plain and simple , if he was around to accept the package like he was suppose to be that morning , the packaging would have been inmaterial and the geckos would have been received in good condition. I don't think GKO reptiles has to defend their side or their actions anymore. Bruce is definitely in the wrong here and GKO don't owe him anything. From what was posted here i think Bruce would have a hard time proving anything in court. if he was to to take them to court and he did lose, GKO could always turn around and counter sue for court costs and damage to their repuation.

 

[Welsh]

Also, if no one from the recieving party is at the delivery site to recieve the package, previously agreed to by GKO Reptiles and the purchaser, GKO Reptiles cannot be liable for any deaths, injuries, or otherwise.

I put "previously agreed to by GKO Reptiles and the purchaser" in italics because of the following statement.

The boy woke me up and admitted to making a mistake in sending them to be signed for and accepted responsibility for not knowing that if he insured the geckos that a signature would be required. Now they are lying as best they can to cover themselves after they decided that they could not part with the small fortune that I sent them.

It seems you guys didn't agree to having a signature required for pickup.
Am I reading that not the case, or am I reading this wrong. If not the liability law is void.

Im not taking sides, nor is that my opinion, I am just meerly trying to understand the facts more in the story.

Poor Geckos :main_thumbsdown:

 

[gko reptiles]

There is an agreement that someone is there to recieve the geckos. Whether a signature is required or not someone has to be there. How do we know that someone was there to recieve the geckos if there is no signature? For example, if you sent geckos to someone without a signature requirement and they called you later that day and said the geckos were dead how do you know the geckos didn't sit on their doorstep all day? Here is a link to our agreement on our website: www.gkoreptiles.com

 

[wilomn]

GKO Reptiles' shipping policy is as follows:

Live Arrival Garuntee

GKO Reptiles offers a Live Arrival Garuntee. This means that the Leopard Gecko(s) shipped to the purchaser will arrive at the purchasers doorstep alive via FedEx or UPS overnight services unless otherwise specified by both GKO Reptiles and the recieving party. A confirmation tracking number will arrive via email from GKO Reptiles to the recipient the day before or the day of shipment of the package. Please note that all orders are suseptable to insurance at the discretion of GKO Reptiles. (Generally, all orders over $500 will be insured.) Also, if no one from the recieving party is at the delivery site to recieve the package, previously agreed to by GKO Reptiles and the purchaser, GKO Reptiles cannot be liable for any deaths, injuries, or otherwise.


Two things here.

1st. The TOS is pretty simple. IF you're not there, there is NO live arrival guarentee.

2nd. I don't believe anyone other than Delta will allow you to ship reptiles with insurance and ACTUALLY COVER THE REPTILES SHIPPED.

Ups and Fedex will both allow you to purchase all the insurance you want, but if it is for live animals, you are throwing your money away. They will deny any claim for an animal.

Unless things have changed since late last year.

 

[BalloonzForU]

I'm sorry but where does one draw the line when it comes to TOS? If we do not hold buyers responsible to be available to receive the animals upon first deliver attempt, we might as well just kill the animals ourselves. How can someone pay $950 for a group of animals to be delivered to his door and not care enough to set an alarm so he can be available to answer the door, and then try to justify blaming someone else for the animals deaths? Should we all start require a signed contract for someone to purchase a leo, because we want to make sure when they agree to be available to receive the animals? I have read too many of these types of threads lately when the seller(s) is told they should refund 100% of the money, when they completed their obligation, in shipping the animals on an agreed upon date and the buyer(s) were not responsible enough to be there for delivery, for what ever reason. I say no way, no more! This package was not lost, this package was indeed attempted to be delivered not once but twice, after being called back. Christine and Phillip, I say keep the money, and the surviving leo, unless Bruce is willing to pay for her to be shipped again.

 

[LeosForLess]

The only problem with TOS on websites is that they can be changed without anybody knowing. I think when a gecko is ordered, the TOS should be shipped along with the receipt. Im not saying GKO changed it, but it would be a good idea so that there is no confusion.

 

[Marc118]

The only problem with TOS on websites is that they can be changed without anybody knowing. I think when a gecko is ordered, the TOS should be shipped along with the receipt. Im not saying GKO changed it, but it would be a good idea so that there is no confusion.

On that note, with the pictures anyone can throw in a few icepacks before taking it. Not saying that GKO did that,nor do I have anything against the two parties personally. Anything is possible.

 

[wilomn]

On that note, with the pictures anyone can throw in a few icepacks before taking it. Not saying that GKO did that,nor do I have anything against the two parties personally. Anything is possible.

And THIS is exactly why REPUTATION is so important. Your word is all you have to get you through tough times.

IF you have a reputation for being honest then when someone does say something like, "you changed your TOS after you shipped to me" or "you put those icepacks in the picture after the geckos died" you can tell them to pound sand.

You don't have to know or even like someone to know whether or not they are honest if they've been around a while, reputation will tell you what you need to know.

Christine and her husband have now gotten the spotlight as honest people who had a bad customer and STILL tried to make him happy.

I can't see where this is bad for them, they've done all they could to make it right and then bruce tried to take advantage of thier youth and general newness, I think, to this business by threatening law suits. No, I can't see them in a negative light at all.

 

[Kimjorg]

#1-Wilomn- After being with Phillip and Christine the entire day of the happenings and seeing how much they tried to please Bruce you are excatly right! I am not quite sure when it all of the sudden turned into GKO being the bad guys. they did everything in their power to satisfy their customer and his negligence and when he didnt accept the package at his front door or their offer (which by the way was way more generous than I think most of us would be myself included) he therefore tryed to make them look like the bad people.
#2- As for the pictures I am a little confused. You guys ask to see pictures of the box and the dead geckos (which is kinda sick) and then complain and have nothing positive to say and basically insinuate that GKO is lying. Be smarter people. someone asked for a photo and they posted it.
Wilomn couldnt be any more correct when he said that GKO reputation will not be tainted for this and Bruce's will. So from a good friend of GKO's that has been trying really hard to get their name THANKS BRUCE for the advertisement of how generous and how much they try to please their customers.

 

[Val]

#2- As for the pictures I am a little confused. You guys ask to see pictures of the box and the dead geckos (which is kinda sick) and then complain and have nothing positive to say and basically insinuate that GKO is lying. Be smarter people. someone asked for a photo and they posted it.

While it is sick, it is evidence that the animals in question are infact dead.

The reasons pictures are necessary are for proof. Let's say that I shipped someone a box of geckos worth $1500.00, and the buyer turned around and said that when he opened the box all of them were dead. I am not going to issue them a full refund based on trust alone because without seeing it myself, the geckos could still be alive. Then the buyer not only has the geckos, but they were free. It's an issue of trust and honesty, and in most cases we are dealing with people we have never met and have only talked to over the internet..so how much trust can really be there?

Maybe the reason nothing positive was said about the pictures were because only three geckos were shown, and in their enclosed delis. I can't really tell what I'm looking at..

Either way, I don't think that Bruce deserves a full refund, or any refund at all. If he was smart he would have taken the half-refund and the still live gecko when it was offered. As I read this, I was shocked that GKO had even offered that, because the fact of the matter is that Bruce is at fault. He should have been waiting for the shipment and not sleeping. I like my sleep as much as the next person, and if I had almost $1,000 worth of geckos coming to my house, I'd be sitting impatiently waiting at the window for that truck to pull up.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I don't believe anyone other than Delta will allow you to ship reptiles with insurance and ACTUALLY COVER THE REPTILES SHIPPED.

Ups and Fedex will both allow you to purchase all the insurance you want, but if it is for live animals, you are throwing your money away. They will deny any claim for an animal.

This is correct. No carrier other than Delta Dash will cover the loss of the animal.