Combining different albino morphs?

[SteveB]

If you're going to play devil's advocate, then suggest the reasoning behind why finding one ethical makes the other ethical?

I think it's pretty clear that placing a blizzard next to two or three different strains of albino, you're going to clearly, visibly determine which is a blizzard. Are you going to definitely identify each albino strain correctly each and every time?

If you breed two leos that are double het for two different albino strains together, are you going to be able to conclusively identify each and every offspring correctly by appearance?
Do we even know if we will get viable offspring from this pairing, or if we will get a reduced number of offspring as a result of the albino genes not being compatible?

It's these uncertainties that make it unethical, in my mind, to place these animals on the open market. Now if you want to cross them and develop a bloodline specifically dedicated to mixed albino strains, this may not be entirely unethical - as long as it remains isolated from bloodlines that are intended to be pure.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

If you're going to play devil's advocate, then suggest the reasoning behind why finding one ethical makes the other ethical?

That was my question.

Why do we think it's ethical to cross albinos with blizzards, patternless, snows, SHTCT's, and enigma's - but not ethical to cross the different albino strains?

The key here is 'think'. I'd like to know what we think about this queston, and why we think. Steve, you gave a really good point.

 

[nevinm]

i havent read this entire thread, only about the last page or so. i have my beleavies with the crossing of the albinos, and i wont do it unless i HAVE to, to prove out a poss het. But at a recent expo that i was at, i had a short converstaion with someone (big breeder that will remain nameless) that did cross 2 albino trates. he said they came out looking like nothing more then any of the 3 albinos we have. so there is no point to do it to begin with. crossing the albino strain with patt., blizz, snows, SHTCTs, and so on will produce things that are compleatly different than what he have. IMO bells are the most beautiful albinos we have, perticularly becasue of their eyes. i guess what im getting at is theres no reason at all to cross the strains because exactly what was said at the begining of this thread is that they are beautiful in there own rights, and again, IMO nothing special will come from crossing them.

ps. if any one wants to tell me to butt out thats fine. i will happly

 

[KelliH]

The Enigmas were already out there, and going to be sold. I don't see what serious leopard gecko breeder in their right mind would turn down the opportunity to work with them the way I have. In my way of thinking, this is not much different than when Rainwater Albinos were first released and a few of us LUCKY breeders ended up with RW's that were also Het Patternless. Like you already said dude, it will all work itself out in the end. Have fun with it instead of looking at only the negative side. But you don't breed leos anymore anyway, so it's kind of irrelevant to you, no?

 

[SteveB]

Kelli, I said that on page 1

it reminds me of the early days dealing with Rainwater - you never knew if you were buying a het, a double het, or a normal from him...

As for the other part of your post-
You of all people know it's impossible to ever truly break the leo addiction

 

[KelliH]

Kelli, I said that on page 1

I know you did, but for all of us that ended up with surprise "hets", we were happy not bitching.

 

[nevinm]

ohhhhhh kelli you said a bad word!!!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Which 'bad' word... het's, or bitching?

 

[Jodi L Aherns]

I was one of the main people that breed all 3 albinos back to each other to prove they were not the same.I did this for me.I also hatched a Tremper Bell albino that did prove out to be a double het 100%.I sold the babys from all the cross as WHAT they were,people bought them.Hell i was on my way to hatch out the first 3 way cross,i was very happy about this and other people were also.But then i got out of breeding leos.Leopard gecko people need to calm down and let things happen,belive it or not good will come out of cross.I see so many things now that were bad years ago.That is all i have to say bash me if you want.I have to go out and do the chickens,ducks and cows yes i am a true farmer now and love it.:main_yes:

 

[SteveB]

Jodi, good to see you post, miss seeing your contributions to the community.

Thanks for your input on the subject!

 

[Ccrashca069]

I find nothing wrong with whatever crosses you make as long as you inform the buyer. It is the right thing to do and ethical business/breeder practice. I personally like a lot of the differant crosses out there. I am excited to see Brittney's project she is working on. Can I put a bid on one now?

 

[Jodi L Aherns]

Thank you Steve.I come on here a few times a week and look around.I do not have alot of time these days.I hunt 7 days a week,I work 5 days a week breeding mice (For Marc Baily)I raise the chickens and sell there eggs around 35-40 dozen a week.The ducks will start laying in the next week or two i hope and the cows take up alot of my time as well.But i do love being a true farmer now.I try my best to live off the land as before i never cared big mistake.So if you all know farmers help support them by buying there meat,eggs,etc.They do work there A$$ off 7 days a week.Take care all.
P.S i do still work with reptiles i keep western Hognose hope to have a boat load of eggs in 2008.

 

[Ian S.]

I'm a noob! must read rest of the posts.

 

[Ian S.]

I also hatched a Tremper Bell albino that did prove out to be a double het 100%.

Do you have any pics of this leo? of course it would prove to be a double het but how were you sure of the double homozygouse?

 

[Jodi L Aherns]

I have not looked at my gecko pics for a year or two i will see if i have one.The gecko just had a very ODD look to it not like any of the sibs that hatched out.So i keep it and breed it to a 100% bell and had Bell babys hatch out,then breed it to a 100% Tremper and had tremper babys hatch out.So with this happing it had to be a double homo.

 

[Ian S.]

interesting... I'd love to see the pics I'm very interested in the looks of the gecko. As far as the breedings go, it still leads me to believe in the possiblility that it was still physically one type albino and just a double het. What was the number of albinos you hatched from each?

 

[Ian S.]

To explain my question a bit further with out just sounding like a rude skeptic, (I mean no offense) When I was only breeding normal trempers a few years ago, I found that in one particular year of breeding I bred a second generation albino to a fourth generation het. of the same family bloodline. My breedings yeilded more than the normal ratio of 50% albino 25% het 25% normal. It was more like 75% albinos hatched. 7 of 10 to be exact. Could it have been dumb luck? Sure! However it makes me wonder if the albino gene may work similar to that of what we see in dogs bred for certain attributes. Also to compare, some what like the blizzards with the nasty dispositions when first introduced aposed to now a day blizzards. I do not believe that it is just coincidence that they (blizzards) are becoming friendlier only due to being long turn captives rather than something being hardwired or altered genetically. To further sum up the reason for the question maybe your results were in some way misleading by this factor?

 

[David Loftin]

I am really interested in seeing pictures of the Double Albino if it would be possible.