"Cross Species" Breeding?

[Gregg M]

Regardless if it can be done, I don't think it should. What would you gain by doing so? You would only be creating something new with no taxonomical belonging. Creating "mutts" on purpose should only be done for your own possession but not to be distributed. However, I still frown upon that. Yes it may look nice but if you don't like the look of a WC leo (or other reptile) then get a different gecko.

You do not think it should be done and you have made your opinion valid... However, there are people who do enjoy creating something new and different... I believe if people like them, they should be able to produce them or buy them...

In my opinion, reptile hybrids have their place in the hobby... I do not really see the big problem... Some think hybrids will destroy pure bloodlines... This has already proven false... King X corn hybrids have not poluted the pure king and pure corn bloodlines and they have been hybridized for I would guess 20 years or so...

Hybrids are beautiful most of the time and very different looking from either parent species in the majority of cases... It would be hard to slip up and mistake a hybrid for the original parent species...

Reptilian hybrids have also proven to be very strong and hardy animals for the most part and they are most often very fertile...

It has also been proven by scientific research and DNA testing that hybridization is very natural and is one of the ways new species are spawned... Its like hitting the fast foward button on the evolutionary DVD player... LOL... Yeah, I know, If it is made in captivity, it is not natural... The same can be said for any captive breeding even between the same species... When you breed in captivity, you throw natural selection out the window anyway... Breeding morphs is no different than hybridization in my opinion... You are breeding the animal to make it different from its natural counterpart... Defective genetics that are normally picked off in the wild are able to thrive in captivity... Just like hybrids that would not normally occure nature will thrive in captivity...

There is nothing natural about keeping and breeding reptiles in a captive environment... We feed them, water them, clean them, give meds if need be, put them in a cage or bin, we select who is bred to who, we offer them a fabricated lay box, take the eggs out once layed, put them in a container with water to substrate ratio chosen by us, incubated at temps we choose to incubate at, and the cycle starts all over with the new generation...

Honestly, you can not really be a purest when you keep wild animals in captivity... You can have your opinion but you can not condemn those who chose to make hybrids... It does not impact this hobby in a negative way and adds even more diversity to an already diverse hobby...

At the end of the day, all that matters is that they are healthy and well cared for... This hobby and passion of ours is already being picked from the outside, no need to do it from the inside when it comes to something as petty as hybrids...

Thats what I have to say bout that there topic!!! LOL:main_thumbsup:

 

[Baoh]

Regardless if it can be done, I don't think it should.

That's fine for you to have a belief.

What would you gain by doing so?

Enjoyment, I imagine, much like with various other creatures.

You would only be creating something new with no taxonomical belonging.

So?

Creating "mutts" on purpose should only be done for your own possession but not to be distributed.

Why?

However, I still frown upon that.

That's nice. I smile upon that.

Yes it may look nice but if you don't like the look of a WC leo (or other reptile) then get a different gecko.

If you cannot levitate and are not a billionaire, then get a different gecko.

 

[StatikStepz]

Well, like i said, i do not know the validity of those statements or where they originated, so who knows... But i do believe that someone out there has successfully crossed a leo to a fat tail. Now whether or not it continued to live a healthy life, i do not know, but i'm sure someone out there has done it.

 

[StatikStepz]

That's fine for you to have a belief.
Enjoyment, I imagine, much like with various other creatures.
So?
Why?
That's nice. I smile upon that.
If you cannot levitate and are not a billionaire, then get a different gecko.

Wow. Dude, don't be a ****. He was just stating his ideas just as much as you or anyone else can do. So try doing it respectfully, the same as you would only hope someone to respond to u.

:main_thumbsdown: :main_no:

 

[Baoh]

Well, like i said, i do not know the validity of those statements or where they originated, so who knows... But i do believe that someone out there has successfully crossed a leo to a fat tail. Now whether or not it continued to live a healthy life, i do not know, but i'm sure someone out there has done it.

I await the evidence you might provide to support this.

 

[Baoh]

Wow. Dude, don't be a ****. He was just stating his ideas just as much as you or anyone else can do. So try doing it respectfully, the same as you would only hope someone to respond to u.

:main_thumbsdown: :main_no:

I am confident that he does not need a cheerleader's aid with regard to his "ideas".

 

[Whitey]

I am confident that he does not need a cheerleader's aid with regard to his "ideas".

And I am confident that "respect" is due to all members...or do you not see that everyone else on here is respectful to one another regardless of beliefs???

 

[Baoh]

And I am confident that "respect" is due to all members...or do you not see that everyone else on here is respectful to one another regardless of beliefs???

Fascinating, I am sure, but I am not the one telling people that they 1) should not distribute any hybrids they might create and 2) that if another person wants something more/other than one individual's tastes ("WC leo"), that said person should then "get another gecko". That is not in accordance with everyone else on here purported as being respectful to one another regardless of beliefs.

 

[Vision Geckos]

Regardless if it can be done, I don't think it should. What would you gain by doing so? You would only be creating something new with no taxonomical belonging. Creating "mutts" on purpose should only be done for your own possession but not to be distributed.

I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Horses and donkeys are bred to make mules.
Grizzy bears, polar bears, black and brown bears have been known to "hybridize" even in nature.
Many of the dog breeds seen today come from dog and wolf breedings.

They've been proven genetically compatible without synthetic oversight and conditions, therefor it is natural. And I acknowledge that none of the animals listed up there are reptiles, but your argument seems to be more about morality anyway. These species all exist separate from one another -- the blood lines of each pure species have not been contaminated. You cannot possibly worry about the blood lines of leopard geckos being contaminated when the market is this flooded with leos to begin with. There will always be a market for pure leos and pure AFTs.

 

[Fuzzy]

The information within this threat is fascinating, but we all need to remember that we must respect each others view points. Let's take a chill pill, step back, and just discuss the possibility of Leo/AFT hybrids. We don't have to mud sling or belittle one another to make valid points, or even to make our opinions known.

 

[BSM]

I have to respectfully disagree with you.

Horses and donkeys are bred to make mules.
Grizzy bears, polar bears, black and brown bears have been known to "hybridize" even in nature.
Many of the dog breeds seen today come from dog and wolf breedings.

They've been proven genetically compatible without synthetic oversight and conditions, therefor it is natural. And I acknowledge that none of the animals listed up there are reptiles, but your argument seems to be more about morality anyway. These species all exist separate from one another -- the blood lines of each pure species have not been contaminated. You cannot possibly worry about the blood lines of leopard geckos being contaminated when the market is this flooded with leos to begin with. There will always be a market for pure leos and pure AFTs.
__________________

I have to disagree with you for one reason, those you just listed occur in the same area with each other vs thousands of miles or continents away from each other. Other then that i agree with you on if it happens in nature without human intervention it is fine.


While we were bringing up snake species hybrids, i remembered a stupid idea i had a few years ago but i never went though with it as im not so big on snakes. I always liked womas and when i saw someone posted a woma x ball on kingsnake i was like wow breed two 200 dollar snakes together and possibly hatch a few worth 3k each. I also liked spider and albino ball pythons so i wanted to buy a male ball of either morph and breed it to my woma i had for a few years that i got off a trade. I never went though with it as i moved to Europe and had to sell my entire collection and with that being said i dont think i would ever been successful with that anyways. One thing that is bad about crossing any Australian species is that we cant get anymore if the blood lines of pure species gets screwed up (cant import from AU).

 

[Vision Geckos]

I have to disagree with you for one reason, those you just listed occur in the same area with each other vs thousands of miles or continents away from each other.

Those were just a representative sample... there are many many more. Tigers & Lions, Zebras and horses, etc. It's just as naive as saying that because certain exotic plants and vegetables aren't native to America, we shouldn't grow them here. You're talking natural selection, and topic was human intervention. I made it clear that the point of the post was to isolate morality of human sythesis, regardless of the technicalities of possibility.

One thing that is bad about crossing any Australian species is that we cant get anymore if the blood lines of pure species gets screwed up (cant import from AU).

The argument of saying the pure species is going to be extinct or contaminated is completely bogus to me. People who cross breed these aren't going to be re-introducing them back into the wild. They will be keeping them for themselves...therefor 99.9999% of the species will remain pure. Not to mention there are hundreds of zoos.

But this is all off-topic seeing as leopard geckos and AFTs are not from Australia.

 

[BSM]

Quote:
One thing that is bad about crossing any Australian species is that we cant get anymore if the blood lines of pure species gets screwed up (cant import from AU).


The argument of saying the pure species is going to be extinct or contaminated is completely bogus to me. People who cross breed these aren't going to be re-introducing them back into the wild. They will be keeping them for themselves...therefor 99.9999% of the species will remain pure. Not to mention there are hundreds of zoos.

I dont think you got the point of that of that example, so if you have a limited gene pool of a particular species from AU and you continuous breed to create hybrids and the pure species become more rare. Then some people may trying to pass off hybrids as pure species to make some money and those hybrids thought to be pure species are bred into the pure species they were passed off to being and the cycle goes on. If you dont think people will due that on purpose or on accident look at carpet pythons or monitors.....I never said they will go extinct and zoos dont have every species plus they don't sell to the public and they can get animals from non export countries like AU unlike average person or business cant.

The argument of saying the pure species is going to be extinct or contaminated is completely bogus to me

heres a perfect example of that, Cuban crocodiles and Siamese hybrids and look up other crocodiles that have a big problem as well

People who cross breed these aren't going to be re-introducing them back into the wild. They will be keeping them for themselves

SO all those classifieds with hybrids is my imagination then

But this is all off-topic seeing as leopard geckos and AFTs are not from Australia.

The topic is hybridization and others have named other reptiles and im giving a better example of what could happen if it is not carefully monitored. The same can be said about talking about dogs and bears at least mine has to due with reptiles.


Bryan

 

[Tony C]

I dont think you got the point of that of that example, so if you have a limited gene pool of a particular species from AU and you continuous breed to create hybrids and the pure species become more rare. Then some people may trying to pass off hybrids as pure species to make some money and those hybrids thought to be pure species are bred into the pure species they were passed off to being and the cycle goes on. If you dont think people will due that on purpose or on accident look at carpet pythons or monitors.....I never said they will go extinct and zoos dont have every species plus they don't sell to the public and they can get animals from non export countries like AU unlike average person or business cant.

An even better example is Rankin's Dragons, they were hybridized with Bearded Dragons to the point that there don't appear to be any pure Rankin's left in the US, and people try to sell hybrids as pure Rankin's pretty regularly.

 

[Gazz]

And GAZZ, how do u know that the Black Pearl is the cross from a AFT to a Leo? This is the 1st that i have heard of that being the origin of them. Where'd u hear that from?.

I wasn't being for real with the Black pearl bit.If you read all of my post you would have seen the bit blow.

But really there has been rumors of leo/fat tail hybrid hatchlings have hatch but have died young.Wheather this is true or false is another thing.

 

[Whitey]

I wasn't being for real with the Black pearl bit.If you read all of my post you would have seen the bit blow.

I lol'ed at your original post...

 

[Gazz]

Here is why i think leos can not be crossed with fatties..it is because they are two completely different species and genus....Eublepharis macularius (Leopard Gecko) and Hemitheconyx caudicinctus (African Fat Tailed Gecko)..and someone made a reference to a ball python crossing to a burmese...THis is possible because they are the same species but different genus. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, i took biology in 10th grade..im a little rusty lol) Python regius (Ball Python) and Python molurus bivittatus (Burmese Pyton).

Nature doesn't always recognize human classification of species.

Lampropeltis getula californiae X Pantherophis guttatus guttatus.
http://www.sneakyserpents.com/images/Tarzan_in_cage2.jpg

Python regius X Morelia spilota ssp.
http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i271/smilin-buddha/male2nd.jpg

Python regius X Aspidites ramsayi.
http://www.exoticsbynature.com/daytona06/nerd2.jpg

So regarding Leo/Fat tail hybrids.I'd never say never but ontill i've seen it.I remain on the fence.

 

[Vision Geckos]

heres a perfect example of that, Cuban crocodiles and Siamese hybrids and look up other crocodiles that have a big problem as well

I apologize that I came off as a jerk. My post did sound a bit pointed. I just can't see this happening with leos though. Leos have made it all over the world as house pets, which is why they've got a better chance of surviving as a pure species. The Cuban croc was limited to a specific territory and not many people had them as pets, I imagine. I see your point, but I just don't see cross breeding to AFTs as an ultimate threat to the leo population.

 

[Tommy13b]

Even if there were able to cross i wouldent recomend it. They are completely diffrent animals from diffrent parts of the world. Compairing mamial hybrids that are relitivly close(in location) to leo X aft isent really correct at all in my oppinion.

 

[Gregg M]

Here is the facts of the matter...

Hybrids will continue to be produced as long as people can breed reptiles... It has already been proven that hybrids will not have a negative impact on pure species... Not everyone is into hybrids and will not produce them... That is what is good about having people for and against them... If you are against them you will do everything you can to make sure your stock does not become "polluted" with inter-species genetics... That is about all you can do though... It gets you nowhere fast to say it should not be done... Just think, some people think we should not keep and breed reptiles at all....