Do Melanistic Leopard Geckos Exist?

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Its never safe to assume especially when a true example of a melanistic in leopard geckos has not been produced yet...

I didn't say it was safe to assume there IS a melanistic leopard gecko... I asked if it was safe to assume there were no melanophores in the skin on their bellies. I said, "If this is the case, then it would be quite possible for a 'melanistic' leopard gecko to exist". Please don't mis-quote me, Gregg.

I strongly feel Marcia was very wrong in her identification...

You cannot prove me wrong any more than you can prove yourself right. Can't we all just have a hypothetical discussion without the need to be arrogant or judgmental?

BTW, I thought this was a good read on melanistic cats:
http://www.lairweb.org.nz/tiger/black.html

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Besides, there have been leos produced that have had dark colored "birth marks" on their ventrals

Right, but a "birthmark" is something that is not normally there.

Looks to me like those snakes have about the same color on top and bottom. I`m not sure that compares to having so many Leo morphs, with all of them having different colored, white bellies. It would make sense to me that those snakes would have a more uniform color, like they normally do. Then Leos would stay more of a "two tone" color, as they are normally that way.

Since ALL leopard geckos have white bellies, is it safe to assume that this area of their bodies do not contain melanophores?

That is what I was thinking, especially after seeing those "Black Pearls" again.

Marcia, I thought the Albino Leos are able to produce a small amount of melanin, but it actually comes from the tyrosinase.(?) It has been a long time since that was brought up, so I may have forgot some details. I thought that was how we have "darkened" Trempers, and ones that come out very dark from low temperature incubation.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Marcia, I thought the Albino Leos are able to produce a small amount of melanin, but it actually comes from the tyrosinase.(?)

From what I understand technically, the albino locus encodes the enzyme (tyrosinaise) that has melanogenic characteristics, but it is not the same chemical as melanin.

Awhile back, Jodi Aherns and I can't remember who, published a really good paper on all 3 leo albino strains and how their skin exhibited the T+ and T- factors. Anyone else see it?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

OK Thanks

 

[Gregg M]

Can't we all just have a hypothetical discussion without the need to be arrogant or judgmental?

Now now Marcia, you know me long enough to know I am not arrogant or judgmental... Just a little jerky sometimes... You know that I love and respect you as well, I just think you are wrong in this case...:thumbsup:

 

[Lottiz]

From what I understand technically, the albino locus encodes the enzyme (tyrosinaise) that has melanogenic characteristics, but it is not the same chemical as melanin.

Awhile back, Jodi Aherns and I can't remember who, published a really good paper on all 3 leo albino strains and how their skin exhibited the T+ and T- factors. Anyone else see it?

Do you mean this:

http://www.geckoguiden.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8240

The link is to our swedish forum, but the pics is from a US-paper, so you can read it

/Lottiz

 

[Brhaco]

Right, but a "birthmark" is something that is not normally there.

Looks to me like those snakes have about the same color on top and bottom. I`m not sure that compares to having so many Leo morphs, with all of them having different colored, white bellies. It would make sense to me that those snakes would have a more uniform color, like they normally do. Then Leos would stay more of a "two tone" color, as they are normally that way.

Actually not at all-both E. hogs and E. garters have white bellies that are in stark contrast to their normal dorsal coloration. Gregg's pics look a bit overexposed, so the contrast seems washed out.

And having kept the lacertas in the past, I can vouch for the fact that their bellies are every bit as white as any leopard geckos!

 

[Brhaco]

Here's a male platyrhinos (ignore the date stamp-I had just changed the camera batteries and hadn't updated the settings) Alicia and I found crossing the road on the Tremper Ranch last Summer-you can see the dorsal and ventral color:

 

[Gregg M]

Right, but a "birthmark" is something that is not normally there.

Well the black ventrals on true melanistics is something that is not usually present either... Because the normal phase does not show melanin in the ventral area, it is not safe to assume or even think that they are incapable of doing so...
That was my point of the photos and the birth mark statement...

For as long as I have been part of this hobby the term melanistic has been reserved for animals that carry and express the recessive gene that changes their natural color to ALL BLACK... It was never used to identify normal animals that are just darker than usual...

Not to sound like a jerk but, the ones who think there are melanistic leos because they have seen photos of darker than usual normals, do not have a clear understanding of the term or how it is applied in herpeticulture...

I didn't say it was safe to assume there IS a melanistic leopard gecko... I asked if it was safe to assume there were no melanophores in the skin on their bellies. I said, "If this is the case, then it would be quite possible for a 'melanistic' leopard gecko to exist". Please don't mis-quote me, Gregg.

I did not imply you said it was safe to assume there were melanistic leos... I was saying it is not safe to assume that they do not have the cells in their ventral region that produce melanin because a true example of a melanistic leo does not yet exist...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Not to sound like a jerk but, the ones who think there are melanistic leos because they have seen photos of darker than usual normals, do not have a clear understanding of the term or how it is applied in herpeticulture...

Greg, this was a much better way of describing your opinion when you think people are wrong! LOL!

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

And having kept the lacertas in the past, I can vouch for the fact that their bellies are every bit as white as any leopard geckos!

Allright, Thanks for clearing that part up.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I stand corrected about the 'white bellies'!

 

[Gregg M]

I stand corrected about the 'white bellies'!

Well, in your defence, Western hognoses have patterned ventrals...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL!!!

 

[Gazz]

It's a really confusing area also though we don't have true melanistic IMO,or leucistic we don't even have true albino leo's-(a leo looking very much like a albino blizzard) but a one gene trait that breeds true.What we need to ask are self.Wheather you think it's the wright term or not is do you want to really name a leo that a little black the same as a nother that totally black.Example a animal that all white/pink is albino.But a animal that semi white we know them as paid or calico.So has no one though it could be the same for black.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Well, I remember a time back in the olden days when an albino leopard gecko was unheard of... and when the first one was introduced, the community balked and said it wasn't possible. Now, we have 3 true strains of albino morphs.

Never say, "Never".

 

[okapi]

we don't even have true albino leo's-(a leo looking very much like a albino blizzard) but a one gene trait that breeds true.

Albinism does not equal pure white. That is a misconseption. Albinism is a partial to total lack of melanin in the eyes, skin, and hair of an animal. People have the misconseption that albinos have to be solid white with pink eyes because people like to think of albino mammals as the perfect example, because that is usually the first albino animal that they see. In fact the word albino is from the latin for "white" (albus) because before the study of genetics, people only knew of albino mammals, which are most commonly white because their only pigment, melanin, is blocked by an albino gene. When it comes to reptiles and amphibians, there is more than just the pigment melanin in the skin and eyes. So when the melanophores (cells containing melanin) are lessened or removed, the other pigment cells which are not affected by the "albino" gene, such as xanthophores and erythrophores, can show their pigments better. That is why albino reptiles have color. The term for albinism is Amelanism, which is better than the english word "albino" because it perfectly describes what is genetically going on, not just bringing the misconception of a white fluffly bunny with pink eyes to mind.