Do Melanistic Leopard Geckos Exist?

[Gregg M]

This is a melanistic Eastern hog... Photo by John White
date of photo 2003
location Virginia, US
Melanistic Eastern Hognose Snake (Heterodon platirhinos)

Notice how there is no pattern and no other color but black... It is geneticaly passed on mostly via recessive or domimant genetics... That is a true melanistic reptile... Anything else is just a pseudo-melanistic... In other words a darker variation of normal wild type genetics...

Melanistic reptiles will be ALL black...

 

[Brhaco]

Greg's right-The term "melanistic" is properly reserved for entirely plain black animals, the trait passed as a simple recessive. Examples include E. hognose. E. gartersnakes, massassauga rattlesnakes, etc.

Line-bred dark animals should be called something else IMO, like "hypermelanistic" or "hypermelanic".

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

Wikipedia to save the day:

"Melanism [Gr. μέλας] is an increased amount of black or nearly black pigmentation (as of skin, feathers, or hair) of an organism, resulting from the presence of melanin."

Melanistic is not completely black, it is an increased amount. Hyper-melanistic is completely black.

Either way, there is a clear misuse of the term in general. Just because someone labels something as melanistic does not mean that is what it really is. There are often more appropriate terms to use when defining something.

 

[Gregg M]

Marcia has identified a male I have (Clyde) as a melanistic.

I strongly feel Marcia was very wrong in her identification... Only because you do not have a completely black leopard gecko...

Its like calling blizzards or patternless leos leucistics when neither of them are...

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Here is some info I found.

"Melanism- Excessive amounts of black pigment (Holmes, 1979). An unusual increase in the normal amount of black pigment within a particular individual as contrasted with other members of its species (Peters, 1964). Occasionally used to characterize a species in which all individuals are equally black (Peters, 1964). Abundance of black pigment, sometimes resulting in an all-black animal; the opposite of albinism (Conant, 1975). A condition in which an animal has an unusually large amount of dark pigment so that it appears black or blackish (Arnold and Burton, 1978). Not the same as anerythristic, which is the absence of red and orange pigment (McEachern, 1991). Unusual darkening of normal pigmentation due to increased melanin (Bechtel, 1995)."

This tells me that Melanistics of any species, do not have to be all black, and Leos always have had light colored bottoms anyway. Since Leopard Geckos have not been found to exist all black, this is also likely. It is still "a type" of Melanism though.

"Abundism- A type of Melanism in which the specimen is not completely black, but shows a change in the elements of the basic pattern as consequence of the number of isolated black spots or dots in the nonblack areas of the pattern (Peters, 1964)."

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

Here is some info I found.

"Melanism- Excessive amounts of black pigment (Holmes, 1979). An unusual increase in the normal amount of black pigment within a particular individual as contrasted with other members of its species (Peters, 1964). Occasionally used to characterize a species in which all individuals are equally black (Peters, 1964). Abundance of black pigment, sometimes resulting in an all-black animal; the opposite of albinism (Conant, 1975). A condition in which an animal has an unusually large amount of dark pigment so that it appears black or blackish (Arnold and Burton, 1978). Not the same as anerythristic, which is the absence of red and orange pigment (McEachern, 1991). Unusual darkening of normal pigmentation due to increased melanin (Bechtel, 1995)."

This tells me that Melanistics of any species, do not have to be all black, and Leos always have had light colored bottoms anyway. Since Leopard Geckos have not been found to exist all black, this is also likely. It is still "a type" of Melanism though.

"Abundism- A type of Melanism in which the specimen is not completely black, but shows a change in the elements of the basic pattern as consequence of the number of isolated black spots or dots in the nonblack areas of the pattern (Peters, 1964)."

I have to completely agree with those definitions.

 

[Gregg M]

Wikipedia to save the day:

"Melanism [Gr. μέλας] is an increased amount of black or nearly black pigmentation (as of skin, feathers, or hair) of an organism, resulting from the presence of melanin."

Melanistic is not completely black, it is an increased amount. Hyper-melanistic is completely black.

Either way, there is a clear misuse of the term in general. Just because someone labels something as melanistic does not mean that is what it really is. There are often more appropriate terms to use when defining something.

Didnt you read the post above???
The term melanistic is reserved only for reptiles or other fauna ESPECIALLY in the pet trade that ARE ALL BLACK!!!

Anything else can correctly be called Abundism, which is sufficiently extreme to appear like melanism, such as when the stripes or spots of an animal increase in width sufficiently to overlap....This is also known as pseudo-melanism. In many cases it is cause by outside stimuli such as temp variations during gestation but can in some cases be genetic...

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

Yes I did, Gregg.

This is what I am referring to:

Here is some info I found.

"Melanism- Excessive amounts of black pigment (Holmes, 1979). An unusual increase in the normal amount of black pigment within a particular individual as contrasted with other members of its species (Peters, 1964). Occasionally used to characterize a species in which all individuals are equally black (Peters, 1964). Abundance of black pigment, sometimes resulting in an all-black animal..."

This tells me that Melanistics of any species, do not have to be all black, and Leos always have had light colored bottoms anyway. Since Leopard Geckos have not been found to exist all black, this is also likely. It is still "a type" of Melanism though.

Also, I've seen countless breeders in the pet trade (especially leopard geckos) refer to animals that are not black, but have increased melanin as melanistic. It can go both ways. People use the terms differently.

I agree to the definitions of the terms, however, that Dan stated in his post.

Abundism would be a more proper term, but melanistic is just as legitimate.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

The term melanistic is reserved only for reptiles or other fauna that ARE ALL BLACK!!!

Who says so? LOL

It says so right here, that is not true.

"Melanism- Excessive amounts of black pigment (Holmes, 1979). An unusual increase in the normal amount of black pigment within a particular individual as contrasted with other members of its species (Peters, 1964). Occasionally used to characterize a species in which all individuals are equally black (Peters, 1964). Abundance of black pigment, sometimes resulting in an all-black animal; the opposite of albinism (Conant, 1975). A condition in which an animal has an unusually large amount of dark pigment so that it appears black or blackish (Arnold and Burton, 1978). Not the same as anerythristic, which is the absence of red and orange pigment (McEachern, 1991). Unusual darkening of normal pigmentation due to increased melanin (Bechtel, 1995)."

From this definition and the other one, it could be either.

 

[Gregg M]

Yes I did, Gregg.

This is what I am referring to:



Also, I've seen countless breeders in the pet trade (especially leopard geckos) refer to animals that are not black, but have increased melanin as melanistic.

I have ONLY seen this in the leopard gecko trade and its only been recently... And I can count the amount of breeders who have done this on one hand...

Why is that???

Because people are dieing to be the first to produce an all black leo... The only problem with that is the gene does not exist to produce a true melanistic leo yet...

The really dark ones that do exist do not produce dark offspring with any type of calculated consistancy... Where as with true melanistic reptiles, the trait breeds out true and consistantly due to it being a recessive gene causing the mutation...

There is a huge difference between being genetically melanistic and being selectively bred for darker than normal...

 

[KelliH]

I kind of agree with Gregg and I think that we should reserve the term "melanistic" for a true patternless BLACK animal. I have always referred to leos with increased black as "Hyper Melanistic" (means increased black pigment).

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

The only problem with that is the gene does not exist to produce a true melanistic leo yet...

The really dark ones that do exist do not produce dark offspring with any type of calculated consistancy... Where as with true melanistic reptiles, the trait breeds out true and consistantly due to it being a recessive gene causing the mutation...

There is a huge difference between being genetically melanistic and being selectively bred for darker than normal...

I don't think there has been enough work with melanistics to even say things like that yet. Honestly, there are few breeders who even have melanistic projects dedicated to proving the genetic trait. Those who do, I support immensely for their effort and time, and I hope to do the same with my own project as well.

It is definitely way too early to say that there are any certainties about how melanism acts in leopard geckos. That is because there /is/ a gene for melanism that does exist but it has not been proven, yet.

I think time will tell in this case.

 

[paulnj]

I assure you some people working on the "MELANISTIC" don't talk about it, just like people working on alot of projects.

I on the other hand could care less if people know what I have, but don't flaunt it.

I have "hyper melanistic" animals in hopes of finding the "Melanistic gene" some day. Not holding my breath, but it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[KelliH]

I on the other hand could care less if people know what I have, but don't flaunt it.

Same here. :main_yes:

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

It's always nice to see people who are open about their projects. It leads to excellent discussions and more growth in the community.

 

[Ccrashca069]

Nice Hognose snake. But this is about Leopard Geckos.

So far the way I see it is
1) there are melanistic leopard geckos and
2) There is no "true melanistic"
AND
3)There is truely no set standard for Leopard Geckos about this morph.

 

[Gregg M]

I don't think there has been enough work with melanistics to even say things like that yet. Honestly, there are few breeders who even have melanistic projects dedicated to proving the genetic trait.

There are plenty of reptile and other orders that have melanistic individuals to represent their species where the genetics are proven...

Melanistic Jaguar- Proven recessive
Melanistic Hognose- recessive
Melanistic Garters Plains and Easterns- recessive
Melanistic Malaysian leopard- recessive
Melanistic Leopards- Dominant

 

[Greyscale_Geckos]

There are plenty of reptile and other orders that have melanistic individuals to represent their species where the genetics are proven...

Melanistic Jaguar- Proven recessive
Melanistic Hognose- recessive
Melanistic Garters Plains and Easterns- recessive
Melanistic Malaysian leopard- recessive
Melanistic Leopards- Dominant

But I meant specifically for leopard geckos.

 

[ataber]

Nice Hognose snake. But this is about Leopard Geckos.

So far the way I see it is
1) there are melanistic leopard geckos and
2) There is no "true melanistic"
AND
3)There is truely no set standard for Leopard Geckos about this morph.

if there is no true melanistic how can there be melanistic leopard geckos? This topic is pretty much not going to go anywhere b/c its all interpretation. People in the trade will use the term melanistic but people also use the term leucistic for patternless leopard geckos. All it takes is one person selling another something that they call it whatever and the other person not knowing any better and then it can spread from there.

 

[eyelids]

A term used in the pet trade doesn't signify much... It actually makes it sound generic and not scientific at all... It sounds like a glorified opinion rather than a proven fact...

Is the term melanistic not derived from the word melanism?

:stars: