Does anyone have any full grown tremper albino giants who stayed light

[Geckoreo]

I have giants which appeared very light during the first year of age and I was told they will remain light but they have since browned. I was wondering if it is even possible for them to remain light past a year or two.

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Well...


ahhh, too easy. I'm not touching it.

 

[Paco]

This is a interesting read. Take a look. Everyone has their opinion on the subject. I have seen Brown Albino's of all strains.

http://www.leopardgecko.com/color.html

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

keep the temps up to prevent 'browning out'...

-Nate

 

[preacherman]

Temperature is not the only thing that effects the color of Tremper albinos. Incubation and cage temps can have an effect on coloration, but in my experience selective breeding is just as, if not more important. It is possible to produce extremely bright orange Trempers that keep their colors in spite of low incubation temps. Here is a 2 year old male R.A.P.T.O.R. that is well over 100 grams. Not the greatest coloration, but not "brown" either.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Temperature is not the only thing that effects the color of Tremper albinos. Incubation and cage temps can have an effect on coloration, but in my experience selective breeding is just as, if not more important.

Take a look at his post, it says after a year... incubation temps would effect it from day one, they wouldn't appear a year or so afterwards.
I also don't agree with the selective breeding.. how is it possible to make an albino 'more' albino?

In my opinion, the best way to keep your albinos bright, is to keep them warm, and don't over breed them.

-Nate

 

[preacherman]

I also don't agree with the selective breeding.. how is it possible to make an albino 'more' albino?

You don't agree with it based off of your own results, or just because you don't feel like agreeing with it? You're not making it any "more" albino, you're making it a better looking albino. That's what line breeding is all about.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

You don't agree with it based off of your own results, or just because you don't feel like agreeing with it? You're not making it any "more" albino, you're making it a better looking albino. That's what line breeding is all about.

It just doesn't make sense, how do you line breed a proven genetic morph?
the genes are there, there isn't much you can do with it... Everything I have read, seen, and experienced says that temperature is the issue, and the solution...

I would love it if you could prove your experiences, I'm always open to learning something new.



-Nate

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Improving the color of any leopard gecko (even a Tremper albino) can be done through line breeding.

That is the main purpose of line breeding. To improve on a certain trait or quality. This is the BEST way to improve the coloration in a leopard gecko line. Manipulating the temperature, either via incubation or habitat does not give you a genetically brighter animal. It is only a temporary and in my opinion un-natural enhancement.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Improving the color of any leopard gecko (even a Tremper albino) can be done through line breeding.

That is the main purpose of line breeding. To improve on a certain trait or quality. This is the BEST way to improve the coloration in a leopard gecko line. Manipulating the temperature, either via incubation or habitat does not give you a genetically brighter animal. It is only a temporary and in my opinion un-natural enhancement.

I don't think it is un-natural, or temporary... it is (IMO) showing the true colors... Seems like I share the same beliefs as someone who (unarguably) knows what he is talking about...

http://leopardgecko.com/colorfaq.html#a8

...but to each his own...

-Nate

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

I don't think it is un-natural, or temporary... it is (IMO) showing the true colors... Seems like I share the same beliefs as someone who (unarguably) knows what he is talking about...


...but to each his own...

-Nate

To say that this someone (unarguably) knows what they are talking about is an uninformed statement. It is very arguable... I'm not going to get into a peeing match about it but just because it is written down somewhere or some says it... does not make it true. Do some research for yourself. Breed some animals and make note of your results. Use personal experience as well as information given by others.

Genetics are just not some peoples strong suit.

 

[preacherman]

To say that this someone (unarguably) knows what they are talking about is an uninformed statement. It is very arguable... I'm not going to get into a peeing match about it but just because it is written down somewhere or some says it... does not make it true. Do some research for yourself. Breed some animals and make note of your results. Use personal experience as well as information given by others.

Genetics are just not some peoples strong suit.

Preach on, brother!

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

To say that this someone (unarguably) knows what they are talking about is an uninformed statement. It is very arguable... I'm not going to get into a peeing match about it but just because it is written down somewhere or some says it... does not make it true. Do some research for yourself. Breed some animals and make note of your results. Use personal experience as well as information given by others.

Genetics are just not some peoples strong suit.

lol

I love how some people get a taste of success, and then think they are a god... you have essentially improved on someone else's line (greatly, I may add), and now you have the privilege of talking down to people? I think not.

I asked a question, asked for an answer, got some attitude and arrogance...
ultimately, all I have asked for is an opinion, I got it. But, RT has what... 29 generations under his belt...how many proven genetic, and polygentic morphs? who are we to argue with someone who layed down the groundwork for most of the available morphs in the hobby (including yours...)?
Would that not insinuate that he has some sort of experience and intelligence to go on...?

I know my place... do you two know yours?

-Nate

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Nate, this is not about Ron. I won't turn it into that. He has done a ton for this hobby.

What about you...

Learn the truth about "basic" genetics then come talk to me.

I'm just some guy, that's all. My tolerance levels are on the low side for people who are ingnorant to the truth though.

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Nate, this is not about Ron. I won't turn it into that. He has done a ton for this hobby.

What about you...

Learn the truth about "basic" genetics then come talk to me.

I'm just some guy, that's all. My tolerance levels are on the low side for people who are ingnorant to the truth though.

theres a difference between ignorance, and being oblivious... I am willing and able to learn (hence, not ignorant), I just don't react well to condescending comments.

thanks for the help, guys.

-Nate

p.s

where would you suggest I begin to learn the 'truth' about base genetics? Do you have a section on your website?

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

Robert, yes. Any Tremper Albino can change color during incubation, or after hatching. Lower temperatures can cause the darker colors. Each individual will vary, and they definitely do not all turn dark. The fact that they are Giants really has no effect, as any one of them can change just like a Tangerine Tremper. Could also be due to breeding(?)

Take a look at his post, it says after a year... incubation temps would effect it from day one, they wouldn't appear a year or so afterwards.
I also don't agree with the selective breeding.. how is it possible to make an albino 'more' albino?

In my opinion, the best way to keep your albinos bright, is to keep them warm, and don't over breed them.

There are three totally different subjects, you are touching on here.

One, Selective breeding: Selecting and breeding two animals(of any morph) together. Selecting the best offspring, and breeding those, in hopes of creating "better" animals. That is exactly why Tremper Albinos have become so beautiful and popular. Tremper Albinos are not really very attractive without the addition of Tangerine, and is why they are "linebred". To improve the color.:main_yes: This is in fact what we call "linebreeding", and can be done with any morph. Results may vary of course.

Two, incubation temps: Incubation temps have a lot of influence over the color of Tremper Albinos. All of the colors are "natural", they just vary from different temperatures. You can incubate them low and they will be dark, but you can also use the "Tremper method", or higher temps, and make them lighter. Either way they are the natural colors these geckos can display from 80dg. to 90dg. We are in agreement on that part. What is not natural is changing the temps during incubation, and it can have detrimental effects. If we incubated them all at the same temp. that would be more "natural" but obviously that does not happen often. I agree changing the temps during incubation is "cheating" making otherwise darker geckos light. I would not say that taking two eggs, and incubating them at two different temps is "cheating" though. They are hatching out with their own "natural" colors. Just because one temp makes them brighter, does not mean we are "un-naturally enhancing" the higher temperature gecko.

Three, ambient temps: Trempers can change after hatching, it has to do with ambient temperature causing a reaction in their bodies, not incubation temps. Even a perfectly pink albino from 90dg. can turn very dark overnight, if the ambient temps are not warm enough.

I do not feel that linebreeding will have much effect on the amount of color change. Say you breed very dark Albinos together. Their dark colors came from them getting cooled(or low incubation temps), and likely not their genetics. So their offspring could be incubated at higher temps, and would not be dark. Some individual geckos are more prone to the color change, so if you "linebred" with that in mind, you could probably make geckos more/less prone to darkening, but ultimately, the incubation/ambient temperatures will have the most effect.

BTW linebred means nothing more than inbred. The correct term is actually selective bred.

 

[preacherman]

lol

I love how some people get a taste of success, and then think they are a god... you have essentially improved on someone else's line (greatly, I may add), and now you have the privilege of talking down to people? I think not.

I asked a question, asked for an answer, got some attitude and arrogance...
ultimately, all I have asked for is an opinion, I got it. But, RT has what... 29 generations under his belt...how many proven genetic, and polygentic morphs? who are we to argue with someone who layed down the groundwork for most of the available morphs in the hobby (including yours...)?
Would that not insinuate that he has some sort of experience and intelligence to go on...?

I know my place... do you two know yours?

-Nate

Nate,

You can call me what you'd like, but Jeremy is a good friend, an excellent breeder, and the opposite of the kind of person that you are describing here. If you'd like to learn more about genetics, picking his brain would be a great place to start.

 

[miamimike]

Jason.....
I dont know...Jeremy is sort of a God to me .....but to say he "thinks" he is God is in itself ignorant IMHO......and I would venture a guess most on here that have taken the time to get to know Jeremy would feel them same if not stronger. And I am curious why someone that reacts, admittedly, badly to what he feels is condescention...would throw down a statement about a humble, highly praised, experienced breeder like Jeremy and expect to receive any type of help at all????
Now THAT would in itself seem to me to be the opitemy of ignorance....
JMHO

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Nate,

You can call me what you'd like, but Jeremy is a good friend, an excellent breeder, and the opposite of the kind of person that you are describing here. If you'd like to learn more about genetics, picking his brain would be a great place to start.

... most of it was directed towards you...

-Nate

 

[RoyalCityReptiles]

Jason.....
I dont know...Jeremy is sort of a God to me .....but to say he "thinks" he is God is in itself ignorant IMHO......and I would venture a guess most on here that have taken the time to get to know Jeremy would feel them same if not stronger. And I am curious why someone that reacts, admittedly, badly to what he feels is condescention...would throw down a statement about a humble, highly praised, experienced breeder like Jeremy and expect to receive any type of help at all????
Now THAT would in itself seem to me to be the opitemy of ignorance....
JMHO

what he originally said was rude and unneeded, so, I chose to get into it with him...

but as far as you mike, do you think you could fix your grammar so I can understand what you are trying to say? not trying to be rude, but I have no clue what your point is, if you do even have one...

-Nate

p.s,
I have already noticed that for the most part, me asking for help on this forum is a lost cause, due to a post I made about 2 months ago... and I still stand by my decision, and my reasoning.
Every post since then has been jumped on and turned into an argument.
And, I don't care about Jeramey's reputation, he was rude, and I reacted.