I have a question - not meant to offend.

[Reborn]

No they dont need a view i agree but what i was saying with my previous post with the bad breeders breeding. They dont give a hide even which from what i see of there videos and in person there leos are SUPER stressed. They also were missing toes and had stuck on shed. Was a depressing site to see.... they also limited there food too. Im not fully against racks i just dont wanna be like them in anyway. I know most good breeder who arent breed for money that use racks that there leos are all happy and healthy.

 

[M_surinamensis]

Try teaching a 5 year old to remember to keep his bedroom door shut at all times! And also to search his room for the cat everytime he's going to leave, it just doesnt work.

Oh... has he got a learning disability or something? My apologies, I suppose working with a developmentally challenged child would add layers of complexity to the issue that would be difficult to overcome through behavior modification and learning.

I have the mesh cover, and the weight, and I havent had any issues, and I hope I never do.

Oh, you hope you never do. Well, that's fine then. Hope is the perfect substitute for foresight and planning. They're practically the same thing. Hoping is a way better plan than putting a lock on the door to keep things out of the room, working with your poor little special ed child despite his difficulties or obtaining an enclosure that doesn't have the same risks.

I wish there was a little smiley face giving you the finger....cause Id pick that one LOL

Any guesses as to which one I'd give you?

... god I miss TRR's War Room.

Edit:

I know most good breeder who arent breed for money that use racks that there leos are all happy and healthy.

What's wrong with breeding for money?

 

[fuzzylogix]

i started out keeping leos in tanks, and still have some of my females in a 100 gallon tank, but i am much happier with a rack system now. i have over 150 geckos all in racks, and they all get handled daily. each tub is set up with hides, water, and paper towels as substrate. to me it seems a little more "cozy" to them. i'm absolutely not against glass tanks by any means. if i only had a few leos, that's probably how they would be kept. but i take great pride in the way i treat my animals. i am a breeder, but above all i am an animal lover. always have been and always will be. there is nothing wrong with breeding for money, you can't hang on to all of your geckos if you decide to breed. and i can guarantee you that any breeder here will tell you that there are no fortunes made off geckos, but the thrill of that egg hatching, not knowing exactly what is going to come out.... that's the fun part. and when you do decide to sell them, you hope that the person buying them will enjoy them as much as you do. now as far as racks vs. tanks, think about this. leopard geckos are nocturnal and we are for the most part diurnal. can you tell me that your glass aquarium is in a secluded, quiet, dark place for 12 hours a day? probably not. its probably on a computer desk, or in a bedroom somewhere exposed to light all day long. and i know that's what hides are for, but they still let in the light. now i have other reptiles in my reptile room that need basking lights and uvb, but i can guarantee you that its much darker in those tubs than an aquarium could be during the day. it still comes down to your commitment to give them a healthy habitat. for my purposes, the rack is the only way to accomplish that. clean water, perfect temps, plenty of hides, and clean substrate. i think my leos are pretty damned happy...

 

[Krow]

Can we just get along and stop being rude to each other? Gosh... :main_no:

 

[Krow]

I have the mesh cover, and the weight, and I havent had any issues, and I hope I never do.

I have 2 glass tanks with leos in them and one glass tank with a spiny lizard in it. All three have something sitting on the very sturdy zoo med wire screen lids for the same reason, I have 7 cats and also 2 dogs. I have had all three of them for over a year and one is older than 3 years old and Ive never had any problems.

 

[Reborn]

Whats wrong with breeding for money soloy? its them who treat there animals(reptiles, mammals whatever it maybe) poorly. Charing 100 bucks for a normal gecko with poss. hets.(lieing about the hets) I was under the impression people bred for the love of the speices and not for the soul perpose of making money off of the off spring, yes its nice when ya make a bit but for that one reason? Giving minimal care and housing terriblily then selling babies off for big bucks...its discusting... thats basically a puppy mill just with reptiles.

fuzzylogix- i can tell by your post on here that you do care for yours. Mine are in a custom biuld tank. 3 of the 4 sides are wood(all them) and i can say they do get 12 hours easy of darkness. My sechdules the same as theres and i dont go to sleep till it starts getting light and i dont get up till its dark. ONCE in a while the top 4 parts do get more light but its for short times and there my most tame/friendly. when they see the light there always there waiting for a littl treat. As for others with aquariums i dont know how there light bit goes but i know mine do get the light and dark time. Mine too get plenty of hides anywheres form 5 to 10, clean water, clean substarte(mines tile) daily, perfect temps(nice hot spot of 90F air temp on hot side is 87F and cool side 81F night it does drop a bit), those who do like handling get to come out. Both ways they can be happy in i think:/ Just personal preffernce. No hate!

 

[Jordan]

Oh... has he got a learning disability or something? My apologies, I suppose working with a developmentally challenged child would add layers of complexity to the issue that would be difficult to overcome through behavior modification and learning.



Oh, you hope you never do. Well, that's fine then. Hope is the perfect substitute for foresight and planning. They're practically the same thing. Hoping is a way better plan than putting a lock on the door to keep things out of the room, working with your poor little special ed child despite his difficulties or obtaining an enclosure that doesn't have the same risks.



Any guesses as to which one I'd give you?

... god I miss TRR's War Room.

Edit:





What's wrong with breeding for money?

You know.. every thread i see you on your having a go at someone. you take things too far man.

 

[Brewboy74]

You know.. every thread i see you on your having a go at someone. you take things too far man.

+1

 

[Mel&Keith]

Let's leave giving the finger and learning disabilities out of this thread. They really have nothing to do with the topic at hand and are bordering on personal attacks. This is a general warning to everyone to take a deep breath and consider the tone of your post before posting.

 

[Daedric1]

I don't personally think that a leo needs a view in order to be properly treated. All of their needs can be met and the animal can be perfectly happy in a rack system. If the animals are properly cared for which includes time handling and socializing them with humans then they should be quite happy. My echo came from a rack system and she is now in a 20 long(been in there for 2 months) and rarely if ever comes out. I am considering putting her back into my rack so that she might feel more comfortable.

I have nothing against people who use racks (I haven't used them yet but may sometime in the future). However, I believe that in general, reptiles would be happier in a viv with extra space to move about at nighttime, and do things such as climb on rocks, under logs, up onto hammocks, go into different hides, etc etc.

Of course, that is assuming we could measure a reptile's happiness. I wouldn't go as far to say however that they are "happy" because their needs are met. A human being's needs could be met with a small room with only a bed, a window, an exercise bike, a toilet, a shower, and plain bread and water served daily (and probably without some of those modern inventions). I wouldn't go as far as to say that person is happy however - people in prison are treated better than that. Geckos may be "happy" having their basic/minimum needs met, but I'm not sure we can really know that.

I think we would all like to spoil them as much as we can afford through our available space and money, and at some point we need to go more economical with racks. I completely understand why they are used and may need to go that route someday myself, so I am not criticizing rack users. However, my point is that given two leos, I would guess that the one with more space and cage accessories will be "happier."

 

[Jordan]

I think we would all like to spoil them as much as we can afford through our available space and money, and at some point we need to go more economical with racks. I completely understand why they are used and may need to go that route someday myself, so I am not criticizing rack users. However, my point is that given two leos, I would guess that the one with more space and cage accessories will be "happier."

im a rack user myself. but this is a fair comment. im glad you understand why we use racks. but at the same time i apsolutely agree with what your saying.
i have abig display viv with 4 geckos in. and also a rack. but notice no difference in personality or attitude, but it bet if they could talk, they would tell me they appreciated the space lol. and the guys in the rack would ssay, 'why dont we get a big viv like that'. lol

 

[M_surinamensis]

However, my point is that given two leos, I would guess that the one with more space and cage accessories will be "happier."

You're anthropomorphizing, then empathizing with traits that the gecko doesn't actually have.

You are considering your human needs to have space, to have things to keep you occupied, to have an environment that you actively manipulate and explore, your aesthetic senses prefer certain visual settings.

Geckos do not share those human traits.

Gecko behaviors have evolved to meet an entire world that regards them as edible. They're small and nutritious and practically defenseless. All they have going for them is a high rate of reproduction, an adaptability to severe environmental conditions and the ability to hide. Small and dark means security, it means there isn't anything bigger than themselves creeping around to kill and eat them.

They do not require the same kind of mental or physical stimulation that we do. Frankly, their brain is this greasy little smear pasted on the inside of their skull and they haven't got the required physical structures to even register or comprehend the kinds of things that we need in order to stay healthy. Measuring the happiness of an animal that is incapable of the emotion to begin with by the standards of a species that is as radically different as it is possible to be is just going to lead you to inaccurate conclusions.

Educated and experienced keepers do not choose racks because they are cheaper. They choose racks because they are better for the animal in many cases, for many species (not all, of course).

 

[Keith N]

Whats wrong with breeding for money soloy? its them who treat there animals(reptiles, mammals whatever it maybe) poorly. Charing 100 bucks for a normal gecko with poss. hets.(lieing about the hets) I was under the impression people bred for the love of the speices and not for the soul perpose of making money off of the off spring, yes its nice when ya make a bit but for that one reason? Giving minimal care and housing terriblily then selling babies off for big bucks...its discusting... thats basically a puppy mill just with reptiles.


You are lumping a lot of people in this group and I would care to bet my animals get far more care than yours. You will never see me with a thread of why mine would not eat, shedding problems or what ever. Ours are cared for properly, secured from harm properly and each one handled multiple times a day. I am with my animals from 3:00 A.M. until 5:30 A.M. in the morning and my son and I are in the room for at least 2 hours in the evening. Anyone is welcome to look at our room and animals. We give top notch care to each one. Don't make an idiotic statement based on your own personal dealings.

 

[Reborn]

[You are lumping a lot of people in this group and I would care to bet my animals get far more care than yours. You will never see me with a thread of why mine would not eat, shedding problems or what ever. Ours are cared for properly, secured from harm properly and each one handled multiple times a day. I am with my animals from 3:00 A.M. until 5:30 A.M. in the morning and my son and I are in the room for at least 2 hours in the evening. Anyone is welcome to look at our room and animals. We give top notch care to each one. Don't make an idiotic statement based on your own personal dealings.

Well thats nice. Sorry for wanting to farther my knowledge on leos. Just for the record the shedding problem leo has MBD so she cant shed on her own and i was asking for advice on how to go about taking it off myself. Bash me all you want but dont you dare say mine dont get better care then most. Mine are all big and healthy for there ages. They've been to the vet and had fecals done, there fed every night if they choose too more then just a few things. Mine get top notch care. So we differ on how we house get over it. Idiotic? Thats from my experince. People like them are who i was refering too. If you took offense to it then either you're somehow similar to them or misread eitherway dont you dare say yours get better care just because you use a rack. thats just BS and you know it. :main_thumbsup:

 

[M_surinamensis]

Thats from my experince. People like them are who i was refering too. If you took offense to it then either you're somehow similar to them or misread

He took offense because you made an inaccurate and insulting blanket statement while speaking directly out of your rectum on a subject about which you clearly know next to nothing.

Anecdote from one inexperienced person ≠ sufficient data to condemn an entire industry of your betters

 

[Keith N]

Well thats nice. Sorry for wanting to farther my knowledge on leos. Just for the record the shedding problem leo has MBD so she cant shed on her own and i was asking for advice on how to go about taking it off myself. Bash me all you want but dont you dare say mine dont get better care then most. Mine are all big and healthy for there ages. They've been to the vet and had fecals done, there fed every night if they choose too more then just a few things. Mine get top notch care. So we differ on how we house get over it. Idiotic? Thats from my experince. People like them are who i was refering too. If you took offense to it then either you're somehow similar to them or misread eitherway dont you dare say yours get better care just because you use a rack. thats just BS and you know it. :main_thumbsup:

Big and healthy with MBD :main_huh: . None of mine have or ever had MBD so yes mine are more healthy. You just answered the question, You were burned by someone using a rack and now we are all bad people.

 

[Reborn]

Big and healthy with MBD :main_huh: . None of mine have or ever had MBD so yes mine are more healthy. You just answered the question, You were burned by someone using a rack and now we are all bad people.

Ive had her for less then a month some douche left her out side in a 10 with a 1-5 gallon uth in MNs Cold arse weather without the heater being on, wasnt fed(no calcuim), and was on corn cob bedding. Last i checked it takes more then a month for them to get MBD or atleast this bad. Last i checked i was doing something good, or trying too, with the poor little girl. They droped her broke her jaw and front legs. She was not one i bought and raised myself. I seen the add on craigslist and felt so bad for her and couldnt let someone kill her. Here's the icing on the cake. she was bought from a breeder. So she could be anyones baby. My personal collection are all big and healthy! Ugh. there all healthy. The ones i bought not the ones i rescued(which has been 5 so far) even my rescues are looking better then what they looked like when i got them. :main_robin:

i never said they were bad! i said i dont like them. I never said anyones bad that uses them. from the breeders that i know(not only leos this includes quite a few different species) more often then not there animals werent in great shape. I know there aer good people who use them just in my experinces and personal prefference i dont much care for them. Sorry if i offended those who use them i didnt word things right. I do know good people who use them not only bad. and it wasnt just one person who does this to reptiles if i count its around 37 different people using racks that are using them for souly breeding and there reptiles are in rough shape(no i didnt get the one with MBD from them)

 

[Jordan]

omg... people. both ways of housing are GOOD!! ... its PERSONAL OPINION which is better. i dont know if people noticed the title to this thread, 'Not meant to offend'
he was just asking for help and advice.

 

[LeopardGeckoGirlie]

He took offense because you made an inaccurate and insulting blanket statement while speaking directly out of your rectum on a subject about which you clearly know next to nothing.

Anecdote from one inexperienced person ≠ sufficient data to condemn an entire industry of your betters

+1

 

[Mel&Keith]

I do know good people who use them not only bad. and it wasnt just one person who does this to reptiles if i count its around 37 different people using racks that are using them for souly breeding and there reptiles are in rough shape(no i didnt get the one with MBD from them)

Just to be very clear, there a lot of people who call themselves "breeders" who don't know squat about reptiles or how they should be cared for. I'm assuming that these are the type of people you are referring to when you say you know of at least 37 people using racks for breeding purposes with geckos in "rough shape". Pretty much every reputable or respected breeder I know uses rack systems and have very well cared for geckos.

Whether you meant to or not you lumped all breeders together with people who run puppy mills which is nonsense so I'm sure you can understand why that would offend most of the members here who care GREATLY for their geckos.

After you've kept geckos for years in vivariums and racks then you'll have a valid basis for comparison. Until then you only have speculation and conjecture about something you have not observed yourself. I guarantee that these alleged "37 breeders" who have "rough" animals have "rough" animals because of bad husbandry. Would that be any different if they were in vivariums?

Racks and and tanks are both perfectly acceptable housing options for Leopard geckos. At the end of the day it comes down to personal preference of the owner. Some people are more comfortable keeping them in tanks for better viewing or because they feel like racks are cruel and that's fine. So is keeping geckos in racks. I'm pretty sure as long as heat, hide, humidity, and dietary requirements are met the geckos don't care either way.