Is it cruel to keep reptiles in captivity?

[Jayme]

Don't get me wrong, I love keeping reptiles. But the other day as I was trying to find the right college major for me, I knew I wanted absolutely nothing to do with a cubicle. And then it occurred to me.. these animals are kept in glass tanks for their entire lives.. Wouldn't it drive them insane? I have my gecko in a 20 gallon, but is that really enough space for a living creature? That can't possibly compare to how they'd live in the wild.

I also feel bad for my house cat as well, who is so desperate to get outside and explore.

I mean sure, keeping animals like this is best for their health and safety, but how is the quality of life? Especially if the animal is living in a tub?
Some people might say that reptiles enjoy their human companionship and therefore it's not problem. Which I can't prove or disprove.. but what if they don't?

I'm rather disturbed by these thoughts. I might give up reptile keeping and just get a dog instead.

What do you guys think?

 

[ariana]

1) you took on the responsibility of your herps- therefore i say keep them till theyve lived their lives.
2) theyre captive bred; theyve never known anything different. it would be cruel to put them in a situation they know nothing about.

 

[Tony C]

I don't think so because reptiles are not intelligent enough to be self aware. They do not know that they are in captivity or that there is an outside world, they are simply driven by instincts. I am inclined to believe keeping very intelligent animals like great apes or cetaceans in captivity is cruel, or at least can be under some circumstances.

 

[herpencounter]

I don't think so because reptiles are not intelligent enough to be self aware. They do not know that they are in captivity or that there is an outside world, they are simply driven by instincts. I am inclined to believe keeping very intelligent animals like great apes or cetaceans in captivity is cruel, or at least can be under some circumstances.

Agree 110% with everything you said!

 

[Jayme]

Hmm, that makes sense Tony. Do you know of any research articles or journals or something in relation to the intelligence of reptiles?
Also, where do you think the cut off point is? Like I've heard that monitor lizards are just as smart as birds.. So would the same go for them? X)

And just to clarify, in no way am I intending on abandoning my reptiles or suggesting the release of captive animals.

 

[CallDr]

I don't think there is a difference in a domestic gecko in a tank than a Cow that roams around the same field everyday. They are your animals and to do as you wish.

Just don't go vegan on us when you eat a big mac....lol.

Seriously, it's not the case where you can let them free...... to live in the wild. If you enjoy them and take care of them...... you are in human terms giving them a happy life. ( but I see your guilt trip..... just remember they are not human even though some people feels some animals are "like humans".... ever seen someone talk to a plant..LOL)

 

[ariana]

And just to clarify, in no way am I intending on abandoning my reptiles or suggesting the release of captive animals.

ah ok. when i first read i got the impression you were thinking of giving them up.
glad youre keepin em
i couldnt live without mine

 

[acpart]

I think in general, most reptiles "need" adequate food, climate conditions and shelter. The less they have this, the more they need to work to acquire them. There is also an aspect of their habitual behavior. For this reason, I feel that captive bred geckos, kept with appropriate husbandry will not have a "problem" with their situation. I'm less comfortable with the idea of wild caught reptiles. I feel that we can meet their food and climate needs in captivity, but they have habitual behavior (necessitated by their living conditions) to range further. I would imagine that a wild caught animal that can change its habits because it's getting its basic needs met will do well in captivity, but a wild caught that can't change those habits will not do well in captivity.

Aliza

 

[STUTFL]

Endless food, no predators, and on the rare occasion my leo acts as if he wants to walk around in a larger space than his tank, I let him. Birds and dogs and some other pets who need much more space, interaction, etc. than they typically receive, it does seem a bit off. Reptiles seem to have their basic needs met fairly easily, however.
When they do get stressed, they show it.

 

[STUTFL]

Yeah, what was said above also. :tongue3:

 

[mascutt]

I mean sure, keeping animals like this is best for their health and safety, but how is the quality of life? Especially if the animal is living in a tub?
Some people might say that reptiles enjoy their human companionship and therefore it's not problem. Which I can't prove or disprove.. but what if they don't?

I agree on both points. As someone else already said, captive bred have never known freedom. Quite frankly I'm not sure mine would survive.... they approach my dogs!!! What would their curiosity draw them to in the wild?

But I also wonder the same as to whether or not they actually enjoy our company, or if we are just projecting the enjoyment we get onto them.

My Lola never had a problem being held. She's always been very sweet... but anymore, she doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with me??? She jumps out of my hand the second I pick her up... she hides from me all the time where she never used to. I wonder what's changed.

On the other hand, Sela has become my new playmate. She plays with me for more than an hour every night (and by play, I mean she uses my body as an obstacle course. I don't even have to pick her up. She crawls right into my hand, up my arm, to my shoulder, down into my shirt, comes out the bottom, climbs in my pockets, goes back up, down the arm and back into her tank. She probably repeats this 8 or nine times before she doesn't come back to my hand and just finds a corner to go to sleep.

So I wonder the same. Does Lola not really like me? And does Sela really like me? or just the extra exercise she gets climbing all over me simply because she is not afraid? Good food for thought

 

[bman123]

I don't think it is cruel at all. As long as you provide them with what they need then I think it's fine. It's when they are kept without what they need that it's cruel.
You have to think that most of the reptiles we have wouldn't survive in the wild. With the bright colors of Leo morphs they would stand out like a sore thumb to predators.

Here is a example of what I think is cruel. Someone buys a little cute Savannah monitor at the pet store for $30 then they keep it in a 55 gallon tank and heat it with a 75 watt basking bulb. When it gets 4ft long and it's skinny because they can't afford to feed it what it needs, and they just dump it off on someone else. That is cruel.

 

[mascutt]

I don't think it is cruel at all. As long as you provide them with what they need then I think it's fine. It's when they are kept without what they need that it's cruel.
You have to think that most of the reptiles we have wouldn't survive in the wild. With the bright colors of Leo morphs they would stand out like a sore thumb to predators.

Here is a example of what I think is cruel. Someone buys a little cute Savannah monitor at the pet store for $30 then they keep it in a 55 gallon tank and heat it with a 75 watt basking bulb. When it gets 4ft long and it's skinny because they can't afford to feed it what it needs, and they just dump it off on someone else. That is cruel.

Ahh! You must be from my neighborhood!!! Nile Monitors have overrun the town of Cape Coral, FL. It's a huge problem, and with the economy down, the little island is sitting half empty of humans, rampaged with monitors. Paper reported the breeding ground started by people dumping them in the (then) empty canals when they didn't want them anymore

 

[Eric1969]

This topic has always been in the back of my mind too.... But then I tell myself he probably does not know any better, that he was never actually in the wild... I have a 20 gallon tank with what I hope is enough stuff for him so its not too boring... but that is my only set back on keeping any animal.....But i do what I can for him and hope he is happy... I worry too much sometimes and can over think stuff which is not always good.

 

[cherrypopwizkid]

You reptile is also free from predators, changing weather, famine, and drought...

So define freedom.

Its a very western idea to think freedom means no limitations with no consequences. The topic is much more complex than that. we have tendency to look at things in a dichotomy and not see anything in between.

This is also seriously species dependent. We understand enough about Leos to give them full life spans, possibly even longer lifespans, in captivity than in the wild. Cat Geckos, or Gonis however are a totally different story.

 

[STUTFL]

But I also wonder the same as to whether or not they actually enjoy our company, or if we are just projecting the enjoyment we get onto them.

I never expected my gecko to enjoy my company, and I do not believe he does. I'm fine with that. I still take him out to exercise and explore, because he seeks it out - so I assume he enjoys that. If his enjoying my company would be the sole consolation for keeping him in a cage, I would not have a solitary reptile like a leopard gecko.

 

[mutley375]

I know for myself (and probably others) my geckos live better than some humans that I have dealt with. They have everything a wild gecko spends daily trials trying to obtain/ survive. There is no shortage of food, water, the opposite sex lol. Plus they do not face the natural trials as others have mentioned. Unless a gecko or any animal taken as a "pet" is abused or mistreated based on their needs I really don't see any issue. Issues present themselves out of irresponsibility, not from the idea of keeping captive, well cared for animals.

 

[fifthdawn]

Not at all. The lower cognitively developed animals aren't aware of their own existence. This is why many of the hostile and solitary reptiles attack the mirror when they see themselves in it. They simply can't tell its them.

They're also always stuck at the present and just respond to stimulis. If you can't think ahead of the present, you can't wonder how life would be outside the tub that they live in. They can't wonder "what if"

Keeping reptiles in captivity, given you have the general care down, gives them an incredible quality of life. No stress and fear from other animals, food and clean water everyday, correct temperature all the time. You'll notice a lot of reptiles are much fatter compared to wild species.

They don't enjoy human companionship and the ideal pet-caregiver relationship would have as little handling as possible. Reptiles don't enjoy companionship, they simply just tolerate it.

When it comes to intelligence, there seems to be scientific proof that some reptiles are smarter than others. When it comes to turtles, the north american wood turtles are highest in IQ. I'm not sure how they assessed it, but it seems to be widely accepted in the turtle community so its very possible that monitors are brighter than other lizards, but I doubt the gap is large enough to stress over captivity issues.

The ONLY problem I see might be keeping reptiles without letting them breed. From what I know, certain reptiles have a breeding season where they're hormones skyrockets. I'm not sure what they feel or how stress they get if they don't find a mate. I would imagine its something like, being horny and can't do anything about it.

Last, happiness and sadness are human emotions. Humans have a tendency to anthropomorphize everything. Reptiles either have an increase in cortisol levels when stress or not.

So enjoy keeping your reptilian pets, they're much better off in captivity. Almost all captive pets live longer than they would in the wild.

 

[PetVet]

Gotta agree with everyone. We know so much about them now that they live a much longer and generally better life than they would in the wild. Not to mention most morphs we create now would not live very long in the wild. Like stated above, they are all free from predators, fed much more abundantly than in the wild, and can chose what temperature they feel like basking in. Dogs and cats are a different story because they are of a higher intelligence but that is why stimulation and exercise are key to their over-all behavior.

Now I just keep imagining an enigma in the wild....

 

[mascutt]

You reptile is also free from predators, changing weather, famine, and drought...

So define freedom. .

This is a valid point too. Florida has had the coldest consistent weather since the 1930's. What got me interested in reptiles were those I saved that were falling out of the trees, dying on the pavement. They can handle a few days at a time of cold weather, but not a few weeks.

I saved a few anoles and released them back into the wild once the weather warmed up... but how many didn't survive? Our local papers and news ran story on how the reptile population dropped this winter because of the cold???

more food for thought