Pinkys

Live pinkys or frozen pinkys

  • Live

    Votes: 64 66.0%
  • Frozen

    Votes: 33 34.0%

  • Total voters
    97

JordanAng420

New Member
Messages
3,280
Location
Miami, FL
No what I stated was, that it is the rotten stomach contents of frozen feeders that causes snakes to get sick. Snakes haven't evolved to eat FROZEN food no matter what you say. Furthermore, I HAVE SEEN wild leos eat live prey. I served my country IN Afghan where they run wild, thus the reason for buying one. Watching a leo eat a baby chick(some kinda bird idk) and other geckos is more than enough proof that they will and do eat live prey items. Liver failure would occur from poisoning of the liver which again does not happen with pinkies. To cap it off, if you cool your leos(like I do) then yes their metabolism should slow if the temps aren't as warm. Just because you don't cool yours does not mean i am doing anything improperly. I have not lost a single one of my 50+ leos in over 6 years so i'm doing something right? The proof is in the pudding friend LOL!

What I believe you are referring to here is what is known as gastrointestinal stasis, and putrefacation of ingesta in response to suboptimal temperatures. Meaning that, when the snakes environmental temperatures are inadequate, the food item is not digested properly, which sometimes causes it to, for lack of a better word, ROT in the GI system. The snakes body then shuts the functions of the digestive system down in response to the "foreign body" that cannot be properly digested, which is called "stasis". The whole process has nothing to do with the when the prey animal last ate before it was euthanized, and if it has been frozen or not. The only major disadvantage to feeding frozen thawed is the deterioration of labile nutrients when the animal is frozen.

As far as hepatic lipadosis goes, or "fatty liver disease", excess lipid deposition in the liver can be from but not limited to a a number of things INCLUDING toxins, oxygen deprivation and impaired metabolisms of carbs and volatile fatty acids. Despite the improved recent advances in reptilian medicine, the understanding of hepatic metabolism & hepatic disease in general remains in its infancy.

And I really don't thing anyone was "poking fun" at you. This is a discussion forum, and we're having a discussion. Try not to take anything too personally.
 
G

GeckoHut

Guest
Breaking down each part of my post and then attempting to disprove every statement I made wasn't poking fun you're correct, it was being vindictive. That is not a discussion. Rotten, bacteria ridden guts in a feeder is what I was refering to not external stimuli responses. Warming a frozen feeder to body temp. occurs slowly because it is frozen this allows for the build up of bacteria/protazoa in the stomach and intestines ;Amebiasis,Trichomoniasis to name a few. That is what I was refering to about the feeders.
 

JordanAng420

New Member
Messages
3,280
Location
Miami, FL
Warming a frozen feeder to body temp. occurs slowly because it is frozen this allows for the build up of bacteria/protazoa in the stomach and intestines ;Amebiasis,Trichomoniasis to name a few

See, that's actually where you are misinformed. LIVE commercial prey can transmit pathogenic organisms to reptiles. As an aid to controlling food-borne illness, freezing and subsequent thawing of prey is actually recommended before feeding out. Bacteria does not accumulate in the stomach and intestines if the food item is warmed properly. There is no evidence to support that theory...simple understanding of reptile anatomy and physiology is all it is...
 

Baoh

New Member
Messages
917
Location
Saint Louis, MO
Even understanding the A&P is not necessary. Just the concept of enzymatic optima covers it. A&P gives it far more useful context, though, in my opinion.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
Breaking down each part of my post and then attempting to disprove every statement I made wasn't poking fun you're correct, it was being vindictive.

It is not vindictive... It is plainly pointing out what you are wrong about... You have a way of making untrue or faulted info look legit... I was just putting that in check a bit... Besides, anyone with goolgle can disprove what you typed...

Sorry, but unless you have photos of a wild leo eating a chick, I am doubting it... As far as leos eating other lizards goes, that a no brainer... They will eat eachother if the conditions were poor enough...

I was talking about liver failure do to the intake of mammalian lipids, not liver "poisoning"... LOL

You are 24, you have owned 50+ leos for OVER 6 years, you were in Afghan... You bought a leo because you seen one in the wild while in Afghan... So how old were you exactly when you were fighting in the middle east???
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
According to my math you would have been in Afghanastan before you were 18... How long is basic training??? How long were you in Afghanastan??? Something is just not adding up...
 
G

GeckoHut

Guest
You don't know when my birthday is so you can't do the math there guy. Second I just turned 25 last month so it does add up. Next conditions could be perfect and a larger leo would eat a smaller leo if it was hungry and saw it run by. If a leo can eat and digest a bony, high fat, tough skinned wild leo(even you said so!!) they can def. eat a soft, NO BONES-it"s cartilage, few day old pinky. And the amount of pinkies one leo would need to ingest to develop fatty liver disease is a highly improbable diet, people aren't stupid!! 1-2 a month durring breeding season is PERFECTLY accceptable!! So again before you open your mouth and insert foot do some REAL research!! I bet Google will tell you that drinking paint thinner is good for you too!!

P.S. Here is another blow to the old ego. You can join the Army at 17 there guy, so I could have in fact been in Afghan at the age of 17!! Really before you start trying to sound intelligent YOU should do some research!!
 
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Olimpia

La Española
Messages
626
Location
Melbourne, Florida
Well, I'm gonna side with GeckoHut on this. There are hundreds of animal species that live on a certain diet but will eat meat if they come across it. Especially in the wild, animals will not turn down food as long as they can actually eat it. Toucans eat mainly fruit, but I have actually seen wild toucans catch and eat small birds just because it was an easy catch. Chimps also live on a diet of vegitation and termites, but they have been known to hunt and eat small monkeys for their meat. I have no doubt that leopard geckos, as well as several other lizard species, will eat a helpless little pinky mouse if they happen to come across it.

I also give the geckos that need a little weight gain a pinky, because it's just got sooo much stuff in it. And my leos never turn it down, so I know they love it.
 

ILoveGeckos14

New Member
Messages
944
Location
Florida
Actually nothing has more calcium than the calcium dish you should provide daily!

True but not all leos eat calcium from a dish especially males. To elaborate further, that calcium powder you feed your leos is the MOST unatural substance they will ever eat. Leos do not eat marine life(ie. oyster shells) which is where 90% of the calcium powder comes from anyway. But that is better than a wholesome ALL NATURAL source? Again I think the answer is no. In the future don't poke fun when you are clearly wrong it makes for a bad show guvnna'

We just got some new calcium powder that is not derived from sea shells, and the geckos love it!

I heard that since a pinky is mostly cartilage that there is little to no calcium.

We feed live pinkies from time to time. One time someone said "I don't feed pinkies it's not part of their natural diet" and I thought to myself "yeah beacause im sure there's just a bunch of mealworms, superworms, and crickets in their natural environment." The truth is that they will eat whatever they can get thier mouth around. I have read on at least 3 different websites that they will eat other lizards, spiders,bird eggs, and even scorpions. Maybe I should pick up some scorpions and spiders next time im in the pet store :p I read that leos are immune to stings of certain scorpion species I wonder if that's true??
 

Olimpia

La Española
Messages
626
Location
Melbourne, Florida
We feed live pinkies from time to time. One time someone said "I don't feed pinkies it's not part of their natural diet" and I thought to myself "yeah beacause im sure there's just a bunch of mealworms, superworms, and crickets in their natural environment." The truth is that they will eat whatever they can get thier mouth around. I have read on at least 3 different websites that they will eat other lizards, spiders,bird eggs, and even scorpions. Maybe I should pick up some scorpions and spiders next time im in the pet store :p I read that leos are immune to stings of certain scorpion species I wonder if that's true??

Scorpions? Now that's hard core haha. And people get worried about supers eating through their geckos. Darn right these guys are tougher than they look! lol

But yes, the "natural diet" thing is just silly. King Cobras don't have their natural diet anywhere near them in the Everglades, but there they are. Thriving, unfortunately lol. Animals (except perhaps Pandas, and other peculiar creatures) will eat whatever they find because they never know when they'll find food again.
 
L

lar20

Guest
why would u use a frozen pinkie for a leo? lol i wouldnt use a frozen pinkie for anything since they arent really a threat thats the only reason i would ever use frozen thawed was if it was big enough to hurt the animal
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
But yes, the "natural diet" thing is just silly. King Cobras don't have their natural diet anywhere near them in the Everglades, but there they are. Thriving, unfortunately lol.

Ok, how many King Cobras are thriving in captivity on a forced diet of rodents??? Hardly any... The only ones that thrive in captivity are the ones that are fed snakes...

If there are King Cobra "populations" thriving in the glades (which Is doubtful being that none have ever been found there) they are feeding on snakes, (their natural prey) not rodents...
 
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Olimpia

La Española
Messages
626
Location
Melbourne, Florida
Ok, how many King Cobras are thriving in captivity on a forced diet of rodents??? Hardly any... The only ones that thrive in captivity are the ones that are fed snakes...

If there are King Cobra "populations" thriving in the glades (which Is doubtful being that none have ever been found there) they are feeding on snakes, (their natural prey) not rodents...

Regardless of what it is they are eating, these prey items are very probably not the same ones they'd find in their country of origin. Same thing for the pythons, anacondas, and hundreds of other alien species of amphibians, reptiles, rodents, and birds that have been released in Florida. The moral of the story is that these animals are doing pretty ok in this new environment because they are adapting to eat whatever it is they are finding here. Rats are pretty universal, but they are eating native animals that have nothing to do with Africa or Australia or South America and doing a pretty good job of reproducing.

Animals will eat whatever if the oportunity presents itself, because they never know when the next meal is. And the same is true for birds and lions as it is for our little leopard geckos.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
Animals will eat whatever if the oportunity presents itself, because they never know when the next meal is. And the same is true for birds and lions as it is for our little leopard geckos.

You are missing one very important point... You are forcing food on your captive reptile that they do not take in normally in the wild... It was perfectectly pointed out when I shot down your king cobra (that are not living in the everglades) theory... Will a lion eat only greens and be healthy if it lived in a vegitarian house??? LOL

Insects, reptiles, and rodent have basically the same nutritional value on all continents... A ratsnake in Asia would not be different from a ratsnake in Florida as far as nutritional value... Same goes for rodents...

However, a ratsnake is very different from a rat as far as nutrtional value no matter what continent they are from... When animals specialize in eating certain things they normally do not do well when they are forced to take in a different diet...

Seriously, you should think hard and do some research on a subject before you make debate...
 
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Olimpia

La Española
Messages
626
Location
Melbourne, Florida
You are missing one very important point... You are forcing food on your captive reptile that they do not take in normally in the wild... It was perfectectly pointed out when I shot down your king cobra (that are not living in the everglades) theory... Will a lion eat only greens and be healthy if it lived in a vegitarian house??? LOL

Insects, reptiles, and rodent have basically the same nutritional value on all continents... A ratsnake in Asia would not be different from a ratsnake in Florida as far as nutritional value... Same goes for rodents...

However, a ratsnake is very different from a rat as far as nutrtional value no matter what continent they are from... When animals specialize in eating certain things they normally do not do well when they are forced to take in a different diet...

Seriously, you should think hard and do some research on a subject before you make debate...

Ok, it's not like I have 10 years of experience in zoos, wildlife centers, and wildlife rehabilitation parks in south Florida. What would I know about alien species in the Everglades right? Or about what they eat. The point I have been trying to make this entire time is that an animal will eat just about anything is the oportunity presents itself - like Toucans, who eat fruit 95% of the time. But they will hunt birds, lizards, frogs, eggs, and even bats if the oportunity presents itself. A leo may eat insects 95% of the time, but you do not know what else it will eat if the oportunity of an easy meal comes up. They might, if they're lucky enough, eat a pinky if they find a rat's nest, or other small animals.

If you don't want to give your leos pinkies then great for you. But if mine enjoy eating them as an ocasional treat, and if someone as experienced as Tremper recomends giving them, then I'm gonna go ahead and do it.
 

Gregg M

Registered Member
Messages
3,055
Location
The Rotten Apple NYC
But if mine enjoy eating them as an ocasional treat, and if someone as experienced as Tremper recomends giving them, then I'm gonna go ahead and do it.

Why even bother??? Geckos and all other reptiles do not enjoy treats... They feed in order ti survive... They do not eat something because they think its a treat...

Being that you have worked in zoos, wildlife centers, and wildlife rehabilitation parks since you were 10, (LOL) I would think you should know the importance of a natural diet and how bad it can be for an animal, to introduce prey items into their diet they would not normally eat...
 

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