Projects? Snow, tang, aptor, diablo blanco...

[RAlbrecht]

If you really want to breed sunglows... buy a couple sunglows... looks like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill... Tons of the morphs that you have asked questions about are available for pretty decent prices. I don't understand why you would want to make a project take 2+ seasons to produce when you can produce them now and spend the next season improving on what you already have

 

[maggiee22195]

Pretty much.

Again, you need to learn more about how genetics work. Super Snow is the homozygous form of the Codominant Snow morph. Anything you breed a super snow to is going to produce ALL snows. Bred to another super snow, you get all super snows. Bred to a snow, you get 50% super snows, 50% mack snows. Bred to a non-snow, you get 100% mack snow. Since both geckos from the pairing you mentioned are homozygous simple recessive for tremper albino, everything will also be tremper albino. So, that pairing will yield all mack snow tremper albinos, with varying amounts of jungle influence.

Yeah, thats what I'm going to get from that pairing... jungle mack snow tremper albinos, and jungle tremper albinos. And The breeder said also some tremper albinos too. They will not ALL be snows... there will be jungle trempers also.
But thank you for answering... you helped me understand more!

 

[T-ReXx]

Yeah, thats what I'm going to get from that pairing... jungle mack snow tremper albinos, and jungle tremper albinos. And The breeder said also some tremper albinos too. They will not ALL be snows... there will be jungle trempers also.
But thank you for answering... you helped me understand more!

No, that is incorrect. Since one parent is a SUPER snow, all offspring WILL be snows. And all offspring will be tremper albinos since both parents are tremper albinos. You cannot get non-snow offspring if there is a super snow parent. Your breeder is incorrect, unless the parent is not a SUPER snow.

 

[maggiee22195]

No, that is incorrect. Since one parent is a SUPER snow, all offspring WILL be snows. And all offspring will be tremper albinos since both parents are tremper albinos. You cannot get non-snow offspring if there is a super snow parent. Your breeder is incorrect, unless the parent is not a SUPER snow.

alrighty... well, thank you anyway!

 

[maggiee22195]

If you really want to breed sunglows... buy a couple sunglows... looks like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill... Tons of the morphs that you have asked questions about are available for pretty decent prices. I don't understand why you would want to make a project take 2+ seasons to produce when you can produce them now and spend the next season improving on what you already have

Yeah, I might... I might just stick with SHTCTB and the other ones that I mentioned. And I will probably get sunglows next year.

 

[Jordan]

If you really want to breed sunglows... buy a couple sunglows... looks like you are making a mountain out of a mole hill... Tons of the morphs that you have asked questions about are available for pretty decent prices. I don't understand why you would want to make a project take 2+ seasons to produce when you can produce them now and spend the next season improving on what you already have

because whats the point of trying to produce sunglows if you have just bought some... Why produce what youve already got?
its more fun to buy the genes needed and prodcue the combination morph that you like... instead of just buying it,.. where the fun in that.

 

[maggiee22195]

because whats the point of trying to produce sunglows if you have just bought some... Why produce what youve already got?
its more fun to buy the genes needed and prodcue the combination morph that you like... instead of just buying it,.. where the fun in that.

Hahah true point! I'm just in it for fun! As we all are!

 

[T-ReXx]

because whats the point of trying to produce sunglows if you have just bought some... Why produce what youve already got?
its more fun to buy the genes needed and prodcue the combination morph that you like... instead of just buying it,.. where the fun in that.

Because part of the responsibility of a breeder is to produce the highest quality animals possible. Starting from scratch with a project like tremper albino X SHTCTB is going to produce hundreds of animals that aren't necessarily good examples of the morph, and dumping all this "by-product" into the gene pool is detrimental to the species and the hobby, which is already flooded with subpar animals. Adding animals that are well below the quality of the animals already produced by breeders who have spent years developing the morph to the population just because it's "fun" to do so is counterproductive to the entire goal of responsible leopard gecko breeders everywhere. The goal of any breeder should be to produce the highest quality animals possible, and that means starting with the highest quality stock you can acquire.

 

[maggiee22195]

Because part of the responsibility of a breeder is to produce the highest quality animals possible. Starting from scratch with a project like tremper albino X SHTCTB is going to produce hundreds of animals that aren't necessarily good examples of the morph, and dumping all this "by-product" into the gene pool is detrimental to the species and the hobby, which is already flooded with subpar animals. Adding animals that are well below the quality of the animals already produced by breeders who have spent years developing the morph to the population just because it's "fun" to do so is counterproductive to the entire goal of responsible leopard gecko breeders everywhere. The goal of any breeder should be to produce the highest quality animals possible, and that means starting with the highest quality stock you can acquire.

Well, that is why I am only getting the geckos that I already said. I am getting really good geckos. And I said, maybe I will get sunglows next year. I meant I was into breeding for fun... not to make a profit or become the next best breeder.

 

[RAlbrecht]

Ted basically got my point. The leopard gecko market for a lot of morphs is flooded big time, and adding some in-between stuff or "project" geckos on a small scale into the market isn't going to do much. But starting a project from scratch that has already been done time and time again, is going to add a bunch of stuff that isn't really needed. Also Maggie do you have a market that you can sell to or are you going to sell everything on here? I produced over 120 Leo's this year and I'm down to maybe 40 counting hold backs and things I'm going to trade or sell. I think if you want to make Sunglows, use some more basic sunglows as a stepping stone, and improve on that... don't set yourself back, and leave yourself with extra geckos you might not be able to sell

 

[maggiee22195]

Ted basically got my point. The leopard gecko market for a lot of morphs is flooded big time, and adding some in-between stuff or "project" geckos on a small scale into the market isn't going to do much. But starting a project from scratch that has already been done time and time again, is going to add a bunch of stuff that isn't really needed. Also Maggie do you have a market that you can sell to or are you going to sell everything on here? I produced over 120 Leo's this year and I'm down to maybe 40 counting hold backs and things I'm going to trade or sell. I think if you want to make Sunglows, use some more basic sunglows as a stepping stone, and improve on that... don't set yourself back, and leave yourself with extra geckos you might not be able to sell

Yeah, I know. But again, it is why I said I am getting the geckos I am. I am getting some really amazing SHCTB's and I am getting a really pretty super snow tremper albino.

 

[Jordan]

Because part of the responsibility of a breeder is to produce the highest quality animals possible. Starting from scratch with a project like tremper albino X SHTCTB is going to produce hundreds of animals that aren't necessarily good examples of the morph, and dumping all this "by-product" into the gene pool is detrimental to the species and the hobby, which is already flooded with subpar animals. Adding animals that are well below the quality of the animals already produced by breeders who have spent years developing the morph to the population just because it's "fun" to do so is counterproductive to the entire goal of responsible leopard gecko breeders everywhere. The goal of any breeder should be to produce the highest quality animals possible, and that means starting with the highest quality stock you can acquire.

If you start with good quality geckos you can create good quality geckos.

My point was more that if i wanted a dreamsicle... id rather buy like a raptor and mack enigma het raptor or something rather than a dreamsicle.
because if im just going to buy a dreamsicle then it takes the fun out of breeding for one.

Yes we have to be responsible breeders, but its still a hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun. So the fun part its hatching the babies you want.

 

[T-ReXx]

If you start with good quality geckos you can create good quality geckos.

My point was more that if i wanted a dreamsicle... id rather buy like a raptor and mack enigma het raptor or something rather than a dreamsicle.
because if im just going to buy a dreamsicle then it takes the fun out of breeding for one.

Yes we have to be responsible breeders, but its still a hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun. So the fun part its hatching the babies you want.

That's a different ball game entirely. Recessive and Codominant morphs aren't like polygenics, they can be produced quickly and without the massive amount of "side animals" that a polygenic project like Sunglow will do. And even at that level you should still be buying the best genetic stock which has the highest chance of producing the goal of the project. You can have the nicest looking tremper albino in the world and if your goal is to produce a dreamsickle it is still better to purchase a raptor because that animal is closer genetically to the end result than the base morph.

I don't care what your reasoning is behind breeding, anyone who takes a male and a female leopard gecko and puts them together has a responsibility to make every effort to produce the highest quality animal possible when choosing their startup stock. I may have a sunglow male, and 10 sunglow females, but you can bet I'm only going to breed that male to the best females out of that group. Why? Because as a responsible breeder, it's necessary that one pair only the highest quality animals, as there are hundreds of thousands of subpar animals already in existence. If you have a project goal like sunglows, it may be "fun" to hatch out all those hundreds of het trempers and tremper albinos, but what have you done for the hobby as a whole by doing so? What happens to those animals after you've had your fun?

Quality, not quanitity. That is the rule for breeding a species that is so incredibly overbred already like leopard geckos.

 

[Dog Shrink]

Yes we have to be responsible breeders, but its still a hobby, hobbies are supposed to be fun. So the fun part its hatching the babies you want.

What happens with the 90% that you don't want tho???

 

[Dog Shrink]

Why? Because as a responsible breeder, it's necessary that one pair only the highest quality animals, as there are hundreds of thousands of subpar animals already in existence. If you have a project goal like sunglows, it may be "fun" to hatch out all those hundreds of het trempers and tremper albinos, but what have you done for the hobby as a whole by doing so? What happens to those animals after you've had your fun?

Quality, not quanitity. That is the rule for breeding a species that is so incredibly overbred already like leopard geckos.

THIS is what I keep trying to stress to my son when we decide wich rabbits to pair up for breedings for show season. He wants to combine colors and genetics that won't produce show rabbits "just to see" what the outcome would be... in the rabbit world those outcomes can be useful for the teaching of genetics but unlike the leo world we def. have an outlet for our surplus rabbits... dogfood buyers love to buy up cull rabbits so nothing goes to waste in the rabbit world, not the same for leos tho... plan on doing some HARD culling in order to avoid flooding the market with those sub par leos ted mentioned. That is not breeding responsibley or ethically if you don't have an outlet for them. I certainly don't imagine your mom would allow you to keep 140+ leos from 1 breeding season would she?

 

[Jordan]

That's a different ball game entirely. Recessive and Codominant morphs aren't like polygenics, they can be produced quickly and without the massive amount of "side animals" that a polygenic project like Sunglow will do. And even at that level you should still be buying the best genetic stock which has the highest chance of producing the goal of the project. You can have the nicest looking tremper albino in the world and if your goal is to produce a dreamsickle it is still better to purchase a raptor because that animal is closer genetically to the end result than the base morph.

I don't care what your reasoning is behind breeding, anyone who takes a male and a female leopard gecko and puts them together has a responsibility to make every effort to produce the highest quality animal possible when choosing their startup stock. I may have a sunglow male, and 10 sunglow females, but you can bet I'm only going to breed that male to the best females out of that group. Why? Because as a responsible breeder, it's necessary that one pair only the highest quality animals, as there are hundreds of thousands of subpar animals already in existence. If you have a project goal like sunglows, it may be "fun" to hatch out all those hundreds of het trempers and tremper albinos, but what have you done for the hobby as a whole by doing so? What happens to those animals after you've had your fun?

Quality, not quanitity. That is the rule for breeding a species that is so incredibly overbred already like leopard geckos.

Look im sorry i think i havent explained what i mean very well.
i wasnt talking about specifically about sunglows and i also wasnt takling about literally starting with just the basic genetics. With sunglows yes all the het trempers are a bit of a waste and not much of a market for them.

but i go back to my explanation, Instead of buying a dreamsicle* id like to produce one. And the same with many other morphs.
i agree that when making sunglows all those het trempers are pointless and that IS flooding the market with sub par animals, but if i buy a mack enigma het raptor and a raptor... i dont think the mack enigmas and enigmas and BEE's and Black holes and Nova's etc that i get out of that pairing are sub par animals, i think they are perfectly fine animals to have as by-products.

And in terms of 'quality not quantity', i agree. BUT that amazing quality animal, wouldnt you rather see it come out of an egg that you have nurtured and worked for rather than through the post?
that is what i am saying, its a lot nicer to hatch your favourite or the best morph around than to buy it.

*dreamsicle is an example.

 

[Jordan]

What happens with the 90% that you don't want tho???

They are sold to the people that DO want them. As long as they are good quality then they will be used to make more good quality animals.

 

[maggiee22195]

THIS is what I keep trying to stress to my son when we decide wich rabbits to pair up for breedings for show season. He wants to combine colors and genetics that won't produce show rabbits "just to see" what the outcome would be... in the rabbit world those outcomes can be useful for the teaching of genetics but unlike the leo world we def. have an outlet for our surplus rabbits... dogfood buyers love to buy up cull rabbits so nothing goes to waste in the rabbit world, not the same for leos tho... plan on doing some HARD culling in order to avoid flooding the market with those sub par leos ted mentioned. That is not breeding responsibley or ethically if you don't have an outlet for them. I certainly don't imagine your mom would allow you to keep 140+ leos from 1 breeding season would she?

I think you guys kinda blew this way out of proportion... I am only going to have 2 females... I don't know how that will be 140+ babies... I am only going to have 4 leopard geckos right now. And I am getting really good ones too. You guys keep going on even after I said that I am going to just get a SHTCTB pair and a super snow tremper albino.... I know what I am going to get... and I am only going to have 2 females... so I'm a little confused about how I will have 140+ babies... and how that will be flooding the market... because I am selling to 'pet' homes. I have experienced herper friends who want some, and I have family who want one or two... so, I am still sonfused.

 

[T-ReXx]

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with wanting to produce a morph rather than purchase it outright. What I'm saying is that when doing so you should buy animals that give you the highest possible chance of producing that goal without producing many animals that are outside of it.

 

[maggiee22195]

Look im sorry i think i havent explained what i mean very well.
i wasnt talking about specifically about sunglows and i also wasnt takling about literally starting with just the basic genetics. With sunglows yes all the het trempers are a bit of a waste and not much of a market for them.

but i go back to my explanation, Instead of buying a dreamsicle* id like to produce one. And the same with many other morphs.
i agree that when making sunglows all those het trempers are pointless and that IS flooding the market with sub par animals, but if i buy a mack enigma het raptor and a raptor... i dont think the mack enigmas and enigmas and BEE's and Black holes and Nova's etc that i get out of that pairing are sub par animals, i think they are perfectly fine animals to have as by-products.

And in terms of 'quality not quantity', i agree. BUT that amazing quality animal, wouldnt you rather see it come out of an egg that you have nurtured and worked for rather than through the post?
that is what i am saying, its a lot nicer to hatch your favourite or the best morph around than to buy it.

*dreamsicle is an example.

very nicely said... I agree. :main_thumbsup: