Regarding the Petition

[JConley]

ok enough said

 

[StinaKSU]

The issue isn't needing a place to host it...I was posting here to get ideas on wording and whatnot and see what kind of support there was for it. I also feel it needs to be posted in high traffic locations to get any sort of response that could actually accomplish anything.

 

[lil_katiedan]

I think you have alot of support here and once it's made up those of us that vend at reptile shows and such can get more signatures from other reptile people.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Kelli has already posted that she has no legal liability for negative posts.

The other thread was closed by a moderator that runs a site where you can post about other companies, so maybe the intent is for us to go there... I don't know if eventually the site will be an offshoot of this one, or completely seperate, but it is as good a place as any to go for this purpose?

Kelli closed the business forum that dealt with issues like this because it's a big headache. I've brought this thread up for discussion in our mod section and I'm waiting to see what Kelli would like to do with this, since it's still in a grey area.

 

[lil_katiedan]

In my opinion it has nothing to do with bashing any particular store or anything. We are all reptile enthusiasts, as responsible Leopard Gecko owners we all agree that keeping hatchlings on sand is dangerous. Coming togther and doing something that might save the lives of many geckos is a small step to making ALL petstores nicer and encouraging new reptile owners to be smart and responsible. Stina just wanted ideas regarding what to put in the petition and then I'm sure whether it is posted here or not, alot of us will respond.

This forum is just a good place to come for advice seeing as we all have a common interest. :main_yes: :main_thumbsup:

 

[KelliH]

Is there any way we could put together a petition without violating the TOS? I mean, there's no better place to find people who all agree about this topic than here, I would just hate to not be able to do something about it because the threads get closed.

I think the best solution is to work on this through pm's. I understand and support the reasoning behind the petition, and personally have no problem with the concept. But if I allow public discussion of it on GF then what about if next week someone wants to start a petition about Tremper, or HISS, or whoever? So you see, if I allow it to be discussed here about this one business, I am setting a precedent and opening a potential can of worms. I prefer to keep the rules simple and across the board, and not make exceptions, because that isn't really fair.

Kelli has already posted that she has no legal liability for negative posts.

No, legally I personally cannot be held liable for what is written on this website unless it is something that I write myself. However, that does not mean I cannot be sued, and therefore stuck with having to put a lot of time and money into defending myself. I'd rather not take the chance of that happening. There are other forums such as Fauna that allow discussion of business ethics/practices but I have chosen not to do that anymore.

So basically what I am asking is for everyone to respect the TOS we have in place here, and understand that the rules have to be abided by and they apply to all members. If anyone has any questions, feel free to post or you can pm me.

 

[Leopardbreeder]

Wha?

What is this a petition on? I know about PETA, but exactly...what? I DO NOT support PETA in ANY way. How do going and throwing paint on furs help animals? They are just going to kill more animals for the furs. It total dog poop.

 

[Ipsl]

There is very little one could do with a petition. I used to belong to and work for several activist groups (mainly environmental) and I can tell you thats the weakest way to make positive systemic change. A good way to do it would have someone who has the mouth piece to address legislators offices and use the "lobbing base" to get what you need through laws. If your talkig about boycotting a business than thats not going to do much considering that most consumers don't really know about animal heath. People go to these places for dog food and assume because thety have a clean facility than all must be well. One could pass out fliers in front of there stores but that has little affect as well and ends up bordering being an alarmist. I have my own Ideas but there are better avenues than a petition.

 

[Gregg M]

Kids commit suicide because people bully them, but no one feels sorry for them! They only pay attention when someone snaps out of control.

No, kids and adults alike go to that extream because there is something seriously wrong with them...
I do NOT feel bad for the idiot that does their self in... I feel bad for the poor family members left behind and the people who have to clean up their mess...

Sounds like you will fit in just fine with the nut jobs in the PETA organization...
Have fun with that...

A side note...

Petition are absolutly useless especially when it comes to the reptile community...
Its also better not to draw attention to a hobby that is already in danger of being lost... Sometimes you can burn what you are cooking when you stir the pot...

 

[Ipsl]

The problem with the measures that PETA or the ELF (Earth Liberation Front) is they polarize the movement and make the opposition stronger in the public view. It turns them into victims. Like if PETA broke into a Dog Mill and let loose all the Dogs, the mill would be the victim and it would give them a little more leeway in there obvious neglect. I do support the ELF though.

 

[JConley]

One day coming really soon Greg you will understand what im talking about, but sadly it will be to late by then. I dont look at things from one side of the tunnel. I will PM you instead of posting anymore about this.


thanks john

 

[lil_katiedan]

Okay, perhaps not a petition. I wasn't really talking about making some big deal out of this and I don't think that's what Stina was thinking either. If we could get someone who agreed with us, like a well known reptile vet or something, it wouldn't hurt anyone to change part of their policy.....

 

[Ipsl]

What people could do is leave business cards at these petshops and say hey we sell em better. And leave them by the herp area.

As far as changing company policy you'd have to make a pretty good argument to those who only care about net income.

 

[lil_katiedan]

Well, in our case we're not wanting to get rid of sand altogether, just for the babies.

 

[Gregg M]

John,
I apologize for my comment... It was out of line... I just speek my mind...

 

[JConley]

Gregg i to apologize....I sound a little crazy sometimes....it has always been hard for me to express myself correctly....I shoot from the hip.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Great way to keep this topic respectful, guys! Thanks!

 

[SteveB]

The intent is not to call out any one company or to question any one company's ethics. The intent is to send a message to any and all establishments that display and sell leopard geckos that the greater community of leopard gecko owners/breeders do not approve of keeping hatchlings on sand.

If we as a community can unite on this one standard, we can potentially improve the conditions of animals in petstores and as a result improve the husbandry methods of new owners looking to petstores for advice.

 

[lil_katiedan]

The intent is not to call out any one company or to question any one company's ethics. The intent is to send a message to any and all establishments that display and sell leopard geckos that the greater community of leopard gecko owners/breeders do not approve of keeping hatchlings on sand.

If we as a community can unite on this one standard, we can potentially improve the conditions of animals in petstores and as a result improve the husbandry methods of new owners looking to petstores for advice.

Exactly. VERY well said. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Ipsl]

Now if we could some how present some information on the pros and cons of this. As well as extra incentive for them complying, like breeder endorsements, than it is very plausible, with enough unity and organization.