Sand Impaction Poll

[BitterNatch]

It is fustrating to see these exagerated stories of impaction...

I'm just telling it as it was, exagerating would be adding to the story.

The fact is that when you have any kind of animal that goes downhill that fast just after a change in it's habitat/food/schedule you should consider that as one of the most probable causes. True or not, I'm not taking that risk ever again and I believe that there's a good amount of people out there considering sand as a risk to back up my ideas. A gecko might or might not get impacted living on sand... but there's always the doubt...

 

[KelliH]

Yeah that calci sand stuff is bad.

Just food for thought... what do you guys use in your humid hides> Do you ever worry that the gecko could eat some of that and become impacted?

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

i'm sure that it is quite possible. Anything really is possible. As long as there is good husbandry then there should be no worries. too much paranoia going on me thinks.

just my opinion.

 

[Gregg M]

As long as there is good husbandry then there should be no worries. too much paranoia going on me thinks.

just my opinion.

My point exactly... Your opinion in this matter is fact my friend...

 

[ReptileMan27]

Why does this keeping coming up, just let it go people. In the end people are gonna do what they want anyway. I agree with the others and dont see a point in risking the animals life over something as dumb as a substrate but thats me.

 

[ariana]

my friend has kept his gecko on sand for 7 years...
he told me that the sand impaction was a myth (i didnt believe him of course)
now his poor leo is hemorraging and he wont take it to a vet.....
im planning on stealing the poor thing to get it help
its been like that for about 3 weeks now.....
its in obvious pain so idk y he hasnt tried something

 

[Gregg M]

Leopard gecko in the wild....
You can clearly see sandy soil in the photo...
Looks like E. hardwickii to me not E. fuscus...
And look, it was out during the day... What a shocker...

Leopard Gecko (Eublepharis Macularis) Found in Melghat.
Leopard Gecko, one of the largest geckos in India , recorded in Melghat Tiger Reserve by the team of Nature Conservation Society Amravati. The 200-220 mm long Gecko was found in June 2005 and the picture was sent to BNHS. Mr.Varad Giri, a well known herpetologist of BNHS has confirmed that the Gecko is “Leopard Gecko” and this is first record from the Satpuras. The team of Nature Conservation Society Amravati (NCSA), which includes wildlife activists Kishor Rithe, was camping at Tarubanda while conducting de-siltation work of Tarubanda village tank when they saw this largest Gecko. The team members Pratap Thakare, Vishal Bansod, Sanjay Rithe, Bhogelal Mavaskar, Ramu


Chimote, Suresh Dhikar and Nandaram Bhusum were surprised to see this so big gecko. First they thought that the huge animal is baby Monitor Lizard, from its size and the style of walking. But after careful observation, it was found that it is some uncommon Gecko. The pictures were sent to Bombay Natural History Society (BNHS), Mumbai. Mr.Varad Giri, a well known herpetologist of BNHS recently informed NCSA that the Gecko is really uncommon for Satpuras and it’s a Leopard Gecko. However there are three species of Leopard Gecko, found in India . Eublepharis macularius in North and West India, Eublepharis fuscus in Gujrath, Rajasthan and as far south as Pune and Eublepharis hardwickii in north, central and eastern India .
This species looks like Eublepharis macularis whose distribution is recorded in north and west India . This is the first authentic record from Satpuras” Mr.Giri added. “We have good population of once extinct Forest Owlet (Athene Heteroglaux blewitti) in Melghat and now we found largest Gecko, Leopard Gecko. This is really exciting news for all of us here in Nature Conservation Society Amravati, says Kishor Rithe.The Leopard Gecko can be distinguished from all other Indian Geckos by the presence of movable eyelids. This is also called as fat-tailed Gecko. This is of robust build with distinctive swollen tail and it inhabits in arid area. Leopard Gecko is nocturnal gecko and feed largely on insects and other arthropods and sometimes preys on other Geckos too. It breeds in hot weather.

 

[BitterNatch]

Nature vs. Captive care

Yet you wouldn't want a tail so skinny in your spoiled captive gecko, not in a million years... Or feed your dog a deer and your cat the neightbours cannaries... Or have your fish in muddy green water... I could go on for a while o.o We don't even have the need to use clothes down here where it's hot...

BTW.... that would be an awesome morph !

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

What you have just described would be piss poor husbandry skills and if you read up a few post I stated that as long as there is good husbandry there shouldn't be a problem and i can almost guarantee that other breeders will say the same thing.

ok let's pull your logic Bitter....i have an N. Levis Levis would i keep it a sand/peatmoss mixture or would i keep it on repti carpet. That is the same logic your trying to push down my throat and all i can do is regurgitate it back at you in hopes you open your eyes.

Just so you don't have to go look it up because i have already had many discussions people that keep them. You keep them on a sand/peat moss mix. You will notice that many of the Aussie geckos are kept on a particulate substrate. I can guarantee you that the people that i know for a fact keep their animals this way are some of the best breeders out there.

I'm not taking personal feeling into this at all. I'm using my logic and reasoning skills.

 

[BitterNatch]

ok let's pull your logic Bitter....i have an N. Levis Levis would i keep it a sand/peatmoss mixture or would i keep it on repti carpet. That is the same logic your trying to push down my throat and all i can do is regurgitate it back at you in hopes you open your eyes.

Ok, I'm talking about leos here, I wouldn't know about the requirements of your particular pet, what I meant to say is that closest to natural conditions isn't always what's best, not that every kind of herp should be kept on the exact same conditions. If going with the logic of emulating natural conditions that you'd use with sand, we should add as well some parasites and extreme temperatures to the mix, maybe a more scarse and difficult to obtain food so they get thin like wild geckos... I'm not saying a gecko can't live on a sand based terrarium, I just think that other substrates migth be safer and there's no need to risk it... I can't see the big advantage of sand that would make me switch to it as my prefered substrate and ignore the, even if minimal, chance of impaction... Even with spotless husbandry a gecko can get ill, and the sand would end up being a problem to add up...

I don't mean to be disrespectful, or to shove my opinion as a rule, I'm learning just as many of us in this forum and I like to share what I think it's worked for me in my particular circumstances and point of view so I can learn some more with the answers I get. Till now I haven't seen anyone saying "my gecko choked on repti-carpet" or anything alike... So I'm stiking with it and my artificial dish of factory-made calcium. Sorry if I ofended you in any way.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

It's not about making a naturalistic environment. It's a debate of substrate and it's ill effect on geckos. Sure there is a chance of impaction. Most people do keep their animals on a substrate that doesn't contain particles in which could potentially cause impaction.

Animals that are kept at a prime living condition shouldn't have issues with passing small particles. I could see an impaction being more of a result is poor living conditions. Possibly too low of a temp, or too much humidity. Those are examples of husbandry that could lead to an impaction.

Going with the repti-carpet there are hazards of geckos getting stuck after striking for food as well as toe nails getting caught and harming the gecko. Everything has a potential of being a hazard.

It's about getting the correct education on the pros and cons for each substrate and then making up your own mind. It's ok that you keep your geckos on whatever you wish as long as you are educated on each different substrate to know what is best for you.

 

[Pepper]

And it would be understandable if Leopard Gecko's lived on sand, but they don't...so they don't need to be kept on it.

 

[robbiep23]

before i bought my gecko i found that a lot of the starter kits came with sand or other loose substrates, i had already done research on this forum and wouldn't entertain sand. some one else that realy wanted a gecko and didn't research would see a starter kit with everythin they need and just buy it. I think that some of the companies that sell these kits should state on the box "your gecko may die" see how many people buy it then. Also the shop who sold me my gecko kept them on sand with no hides, how caring!! end of rant lol

 

[htadothk]

I found this thread over at another forum yesterday, just thought I'd share with y'all :

http://www.geckosunlimited.com/comm...5637-what-sand-can-do-your-leopard-gecko.html

ps. Read the whole thing, there are lots of good information.

 

[lisa s]

thanks for the link - I agreed with a lot of the ones that wrote in the tread. My opinion is that sand impaction is a secondary symtom for not being kept correctly. If the gecko is in need of vitamins and minerals it will try to eat the sand to get it.

AND I dont belive the gecko eat all this sand in one mouthful - the owner is to blame for this - once you see your gecko eat sand it should be taken of sand, this poor thing might have died anyway in the long run from some other illness.

 

[htadothk]

I'm a total newbie to reptile keeping, but I must say that I also found the "sand impaction is a secondary symptom for not being kept correctly" theory making more sense to me.

From my observation, here on this forum people get upset and sometimes aggressive whenever this theory is being supported by some of the members. But on the other forum (see link above) you really get to see a healthy debate and loads of good inputs. Not saying that this forum is inferior or something, I really enjoy hanging out around here, but when it comes to using sand as a substrate, members of this forum can get personal ! I hope I'm not pissing anyone off just by voicing my observation, I came in peace !

Now back to the topic. I'm not religious, but I strongly believe that all creations are perfect. There is a reason behind everything. God (or whatever creator you like) put leos in sandy habitats for his/her reasons, and I doubt killing them off is one of it.

I'm now also using paper towels, but I do plan to use sand later on when I become more experienced and know what I'm doing.

 

[Alusdra]

Let's just put it this way- whatever the reason for sand impaction, whether secondary to other issues or not, NOT keeping your gecko on sand leads to ZERO risk, versus if you do, there is always that concern.

All (leopard) geckos I have ever seen on sand had stinky, gravelly poos. And the beardies didn't look amazing, either. Sure, for the past 10 years most of them did ok, maybe they only lost one or two to impaction. What does that matter when you have a colony anyway? Oh, and they only died because as they got older their bodies weren't able to handle passing it anymore, or they were getting picked on or were ovulating or just decided to be anorexic for a while and all that sand had nothing to push it through. Or maybe they just ate one grain too many and that was that.

Why would you risk your pet like that?!? Look at the poll! That's a lot of dead geckos!

It's like if you said- "Oh, I let my dog run wild because I've been keeping dogs for 10 years and I've never had a problem. I know people say that there is an overpopulation problem, but my intact animals aren't contributing to it. And besides, other people's dogs with poor husbandry get hit by cars, not mine. I don't care that it's the #1 reason dogs get brought to the emergency room. It doesn't apply to me."

 

[lisa s]

well Alusdra - then you have seen some pretty sick leo's, and the stinky gravelly poos just back's up the fact that it is sick animals that eats sand. You can't blame the sand for the geckos ill'ness

and please dont compare me or any on this forum with someone that dont care for there gecko's and keep sick animals.

 

[Ian S.]

Thank goodness it's been proven that geckos come out during the day. All these years I've wondered why leo's havn't evolved eyeless.

 

[Ian S.]

lol on topic though. I agree the geckos are consuming the sand for nutrience and the sand alone isn't the culprit. Course I've never been a fan of russian roulette either. After several impaction cases back in the day and observing several photos of the geckos in their natural habitats such as greggs, I couldn't help to notice that it's not beach sand. It's more whetherd, rocky and compact sand untill you head inland where it turns to almost a fine powder. Spraying the sand down and letting it harden worked out fantastically for me if you are concerned about sand impaction.