The controversial SAND

[GeckoCrossing]

My opinion on sand is that it can be used if done right. But I, personally, will never use sand. There's always a risk a of impaction, it's dirty and a pain in the ass to clean out the tank. Even if you watched your gecko 24/7 and scooped a poop as soon as it was done you're still going to miss something and the sand becomes a breeding ground for bacteria... just nasty. Would you let a cat live in a litter box?

 

[getgeckos]

I have family from Afghanistan (brother in law) and he had emphatically said there is sand and while the geckos do tend to stay in rocky areas, they inevitably cone in contact with sand. He also told me that this debate seems to be intense here in the U.S. as sand is a common substrate used in Europe by keepers. Just another view. This thread has gotten me thinking about setting up a desert vivaria in a 210 gallon tank I just got. Hmmn

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[Jusselin]

Oh, also DON"T SMOKE...its bad for you. In case you have not heard

Difference between KNOWN heath risks and POTENTIAL health risks.

Comparison was pretty spot on... Known and potential??? How is the sand and impaction any less KNOWN than smoke and cancer?

 

[Jusselin]

Oh, also DON"T HOUSE YOUR GECKOS ON SAND...its bad for them. In case you have not heard

 

[Russellm0704]

Oh, also DON"T HOUSE YOUR GECKOS ON SAND...its bad for them. In case you have not heard

Uncalled for. Unfortunately I have had to learn never to state my opinion on something if it is not what the guideline says. No I never house my geckos on sand but he made a great point. Rudeness should not be tolerated as he specifically stated that geckos should only ever be considered to house on sand with an expert. He was just opening a discussion.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

Comparison was pretty spot on... Known and potential??? How is the sand and impaction any less KNOWN than smoke and cancer?

Interesting you still don't see the difference. Smoking is KNOWN to cause cancer (among other things). By smoking you are not in potential risk...you are in KNOWN risk of becoming ill as a result.

Sand has the POTENTIAL to cause problems. Just because they are sand does not mean problems WILL occur or their health can be anything but perfect. Sand has POTENTIAL to be a health concern but is not a guarantee to cause problems...but as I stated earlier, Breeding can cause dystocia and be a health risk for your geckos...why is breeding OK then?

I like your compassion but don't be blinded to facts because of your passion/opinion on the topic.

 

[Jusselin]

Interesting you still don't see the difference. Smoking is KNOWN to cause cancer (among other things). By smoking you are not in potential risk...you are in KNOWN risk of becoming ill as a result.

Sand has the POTENTIAL to cause problems. Just because they are sand does not mean problems WILL occur or their health can be anything but perfect. Sand has POTENTIAL to be a health concern but is not a guarantee to cause problems...but as I stated earlier, Breeding can cause dystocia and be a health risk for your geckos...why is breeding OK then?

I like your compassion but don't be blinded to facts because of your passion/opinion on the topic.

I can understand where you are coming from. I doubt my mind will be changed about the topic. However, I do not really have much to say about professional breeders doing what they do. IMHO sand is more than a potential threat. A heat rock would be a potential threat in my eyes. Something that "could occur" but rarely does. Impaction "from what I have seen" has a pretty high rate in occurance to sand/gravel/any loose substrate. To me it would be a "known" risk, just as cancer from smoking. Any who, my MAIN concern is that sand should NOT be promoted on the forums. Too many new comers run in here uneducated about the situation and post pics of their new setup that the local pet store sold them and covered in in vita-sand or something. I have seen MANY geckos and beardies sold by the local pet store only to come back because they used sand or even some sort of crushed bark and walnut substrate (advertised to be healthy) and they have died from impaction from those substrates. Makes since to me to eliminate the cause. The risk is too much when you could easily put down some tile.

 

[Jusselin]

Uncalled for. Unfortunately I have had to learn never to state my opinion on something if it is not what the guideline says. No I never house my geckos on sand but he made a great point. Rudeness should not be tolerated as he specifically stated that geckos should only ever be considered to house on sand with an expert. He was just opening a discussion.

Wasn't being rude...made the same comment he did, Exactly as he worded it but with my beliefs. If I was rude then he was rude.

For the record I do not feel he was being rude.

 

[Jusselin]

Why even think of using sand when tile is so cheap and easy to clean? What benefit would sand bring that could out weigh the risk of serious infection and death?

 

[katie_]

What are the PROS of using sand other than the way it looks? Are there any?

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

The Pros to using it would be subjective to those who choose it. I would venture to guess that the main pros for those that use it is the geckos being on a "natural" habitat or is aesthetically pleasing. Im sure I can think of a con to ANY substrate. I am not here to defend sand or say it is to be done. Trying to defend something I don't necessarily agree with puts me in a place where I try to defend something I don't believe in and then it gets twisted as if I do when I am simply wanting to generate FACTS about peoples experiences.

Pros (that I can think of) would be; ease of cleaning, "natural" environment, better thermal gradient, aesthetics, ability to perform natural behavior (digging, burrowing (attempt), etc.), and natural abrasive flora in gut. Now I can think of an equal number of cons and I am also not saying that sand is the best/only substrate that can provide any of the above pros...but they are pros.

What are the PROS of breeding? I hate going off topic with that, but we jeopardize their health MORE by breeding them than by housing on sand. If there was more than me vocalizing that it can be done correctly than I would also be pointing out all the CONS of using it...I am keeping a neutral standpoint and am simply keeping this thread informative and open ended. This is NOT a SAND WILL KILL YOUR GECKO thread.

 

[Russellm0704]

What are the PROS of using sand other than the way it looks? Are there any?

This is simply a discussion and no one is threatening to use sand here. He actually did state a pro of using sand in one of his previous posts.

 

[katie_]

I just wondered thats all, couldnt think of any.

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

No problem. The whole point of all this is I was just curious as to why everyone is so 100% Never do it.

 

[GodzillaGecko]

I has a ecig...-_-

Well to many mixed reactions dealing with sand. But I can understand the pros and cons. As others have said sand in itself is fine. Feeding geckos in a tank full of sand should be a no no. I agree with that. Its better to feed in a seperate area. Or if you can create a second area within the tank that is safe for them to eat in.

I already thought about the second level issue. You just put a lip that curls inwards and it should be enough to stop the mealworms from jumping over the edge onto the sand substrate on the bottom. I also think that its a really good idea to just add a second level anyway.

There is only minor bits of sand in the rocky areas where Leo's dwell. Most of it is just all rock with cracks for them to hide in. So using slate is more natural.

Cleaning sand I have a way to do that if I wanted to use it. I have a vacuum that I use for construction jobs. Sucks up nails, screws, big, small pieces of wood, etc. I'd just take the little guy out and then suck the sound out with that. Easy as pie. Can use any vacuum for that actually as long as it has a hose to reach into the tank.

 

[Dimidiata]

People are going to use what they want obviously, just dont try to justify it as "natural" or "healthier" and i wont tear into ya. I mean, yes, it is clearly a risk, yes some people pull it off flawlessly, but it only takes 1 dead/sick animal. As for the second post on here, zoomed clay isnt really a leo friendly product, it says on the package, no heat matts.

 

[mudskipper]

Do knob tail geckos have problems with impaction? I have only seen them kept on sand. I know you can't really compare species, but I'm just wondering. People at beardeddragon.org get very passionate about sand as well.

 

[Lady Shoey]

This is a very interesting thread. I think people think sand is ok Ias I did) until your gecko suffers as a result. I lost my leopard gecko to it last year - it took time to build up from little things like missing crickets etc. I was gutted - and angry - sand is too readily available. I contacted the IHS and they agreed but there's nothing you can do if the sand you buy doesn't specifically say suitable for gecko's (even if it has a picture on it!).
I've written an article on my experience here considering several factors: http://38d1.zapd.co/

 

[GodzillaGecko]

well they do like to dig. Couldn't we give them a mini cat litter tray with a form of substrate that would work for them to dig in when they want? I don't know if there is any that would work. At first I was thinking none toxic cat litter (none of that crystal stuff). But then I thought about when it gets wet. It clumps so that wouldn't work. It was an idea but maybe we can figure out a way to achieve this.

Also...here's a good way to keep things natural looking...why not just...get a foam board..do the plaster/grout trick (I found pottery clay has less lye in it) then some mod podge...throw sand on it, let it dry, dust off and boom! natural looking sand floor. probably not the same but its a idea.

 

[Dimidiata]

I would think something with a more clay texture would be more natural for them then just sand. Not TOO thick of clay obviously, but compactable. But thats just in a small dish or something, definitely not for a substrate. Though, if you fill a hide with cocofiber and moss, you may notice the gecko digging in it. Rango always makes a cave in her humid hide.