The fate of reptile breeding

[DLS Reptile]

I hate negativity with a passion,but I have to comment on this. Looking through the classifieds is kind of depressing. Breeders are getting out of the hobby(myself included 4 moths ago) $1000.00 leos selling for $100.00. I know it is because the economy is in turmoil but it is never the less real. This hobby is without a doubt one of the coolest,most rewarding and relaxing hobbies there is. People want to help other people by buying their reptiles but when you look at the bigger picture it is all about making sure you have a nest egg. God forbid you lose your job. For all you breeders out there, I hope things get better so we can continue doing what we love and what is our passion... God bless...

 

[supperl]

I know what you mean.
It´s not different in Germany!
Many ppl I know that are well not the BIG but bigger Leopardgecko breeders with good projects, well known in the hobby just found they can´t sale their geckos to the price they are worth.
Their reaction is to cut on leaoprdgeckos. 3 big I know of that just want to close for all leos but 1 or 2 groupes.
I myself have a MSSTPA for sale which I offer cheaper than most in the US would just to see no one wants them. I started of at a normal price lowering the price to see if someone will be interested if it is lower.
you get offers like 100$..... I would rather hold her than sale her for 100$....

BTW not that it´s all about the money don´t get me wrong but when I plan nice projects to all my heart in them and the result is that ppl say "I give you 20 bucks for it" and it is worth 200..... doesn´t make fun.

 

[cassadaga]

As long as you do it just for the love of leopard geckos, and aren't completely financially commited, I think every thing is ok. If we have to give all the hatchlings we can't keep away for free, we would still do this. Sure, we'd be out a couple grand, but it's a hobby, and I just want to produce the healthiest, most colorful geckos I can.

I think everything will be ok in the long run, it's just a bad time.

 

[LeapinLizards]

I have though about the same exact thing...the future of breeding these beautiful animals. But in all honesty, I am doing this for ME. It's selfish, how I get so much pleasure and satisfaction in caring for these animals, but it's the truth. Even IF the market completely crashes on these guys, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll still be around...giving my geckos away if need be Just like you, I want to produce the healthiest, beautiful animals I possibly can. THAT is my satisfaction...not the money - although I agree that is is shockingly awful what some morphs have gotten down to these days.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

In all honesty, i feel as if alittle economic turmoil is a good thing. Those people that can weather the storm and come out at the end those are the people that will help rebuild everything.

I'm not trying to say that people that got out of the trade are weak or anything negative but if the forest gets too big the mother nature purges that forest with a fire. Then it rebuilds its self and all the creatures that lived there will come back and flourish.

So i hope that after this fire is over people will return and we can all smile laugh and have a great time with what we love.

 

[thestack510]

Thanks for posting David. I really hope things pick up. I'm in this for the long haul. I'd love to make some money somewhere along the line, but until the economy picks up I'm just working on my projects and growing out my babies. Bless you in return David. Heather let me know when you want to ship an Ember my way (worst time for a joke ever?).

 

[THE WHISPERER]

In all honesty, i feel as if alittle economic turmoil is a good thing. Those people that can weather the storm and come out at the end those are the people that will help rebuild everything.

I'm not trying to say that people that got out of the trade are weak or anything negative but if the forest gets too big the mother nature purges that forest with a fire. Then it rebuilds its self and all the creatures that lived there will come back and flourish.

So i hope that after this fire is over people will return and we can all smile laugh and have a great time with what we love.

I have to agree mybee with the economy the way it is it will inturn slow down some of the mass breading and market flooding, and put breeding back to a hobby level.

 

[snared99]

I have to agree mybee with the economy the way it is it will inturn slow down some of the mass breading and market flooding, and put breeding back to a hobby level.

To be honest i have not seen a drop in the leo economy at a show sense. And i know from talking to breeders country wide they havent seen much of a drop either. I still find people wanting and purchasing leos, prices may be a little lower but the numbers are there. Also i dont know if it is so much "mass breeding" as it is certain morphs. Take the enigma for example (Disclaimer- I LOVE ENIGMAS) I had a few projects last year containing maybe 10 females at the max. I dont consider this mass breeding but i got alot of enigmas. My point is it doesnt take alot to get alot in a dominant morph, wheither someone is trying to or not. And let be honest in a dominant morph is you have a few males your done(or sometimes just one male) So if I produce 50 enigma males, That could potentialy supply 50 breeder right there. This gives a false vision that the market is flooded, but in reality show me where i can get embers, SSLVBB, redstripes(high quality), snow raptors, SSraptor at a steady pace. Again my point is there is a market for many morphs in this market.
Im not trying to defend or put down anyone, just stating that it is what is it with certain niches in the leo world. So this may seem like a rant..lol But it is suppose to be a pick me up. There are brighter times ahead and i very excited for them!!

 

[Gregg M]

Also i dont know if it is so much "mass breeding" as it is certain morphs. Take the enigma for example (Disclaimer- I LOVE ENIGMAS) I had a few projects last year containing maybe 10 females at the max. I dont consider this mass breeding but i got alot of enigmas. My point is it doesnt take alot to get alot in a dominant morph, wheither someone is trying to or not.

The same can be said for any morph really... Even recessive... What some breeders do, including myself, to combat the morph price drop is produce the best of the best... Lets face it, the genetics alone are not enough... People will pay for quality, one of a kind animal...

Anyone can create enigmas but not everyone creates spectacular enigmas...:main_thumbsup: See what I am getting at??? I would rather work on a couple of small projects where my animals were cherry picked to produce screamers than to work with huge groups of genetics in the hopes of creating something nice... The less "by-product" the better it is for the breeder and the leo market in general...

 

[THE WHISPERER]

Very good points.

 

[snared99]

The same can be said for any morph really... Even recessive... What some breeders do, including myself, to combat the morph price drop is produce the best of the best... Lets face it, the genetics alone are not enough... People will pay for quality, one of a kind animal...

Anyone can create enigmas but not everyone creates spectacular enigmas...:main_thumbsup: See what I am getting at??? I would rather work on a couple of small projects where my animals were cherry picked to produce screamers than to work with huge groups of genetics in the hopes of creating something nice... The less "by-product" the better it is for the breeder and the leo market in general...

I totally agree, the best of the best is the best way to combat it. But unfortunetly the by products have to be sold to make room and this dumps alot on the mark. But there is a big difference between a enigma by product(being another enigma) or a recessive by product=het. You just cant 'flood' the market with homozygous animals as quick with recessives(in most cases).

 

[DLS Reptile]

I got out of the leo hobby due to my job getting extremely demanding. What I found was Working your but off in a job to make more money doesn't make you happy. I found that out the hard way. At the time I thought I was making a good decision but I was wrong. (It sickens me to know what I had and what I got rid of). I to did it for the fun of it. Now don't get me wrong, it was nice to make a little money but that was a very small part of it. I just found I was less stressed and had more to look forward to. Lets face it, in my profession there is not a whole lot of positive. I applaud all of you for your love and effort of this great hobby. I did happen to acquire one of my leopards back that I hatched this year a few days ago. Nothing special He is a tremper het raptor male. I am very happy with him and hopefully I can get back into this great hobby on a smaller scale.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

I'm with both you guys. What that means is, I've picked a couple morphs that I'd like to see go in a certain direction. I don't have lots of animals, but I hope to produce some nice stuff from what I have. And I feel pretty good with the direction I've taken with my breeders. I think that's really where the success is at. :main_yes:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

There are just too many geckos on the market for sale right now. The vast majority of people buying geckos are not willing to pay more than $50... especially at shows. There will always be serious collectors that are willing to pay for an exceptional morph, but they are the exception and not the rule.

 

[acpart]

After reading all the posts here and in some similar threads, I guess what each of us could be doing is to re-evaluate our prospects and reasons for breeding. There may be benefit for some of us in cutting back the number of projects or number of geckos produced for a season in order to have fewer, high quality offspring or to have an easier season. I know for myself it's hard to have a female in good condition and choose not to breed her, but it's always an option. I don't mean to say by this that we should all cut down, but that, as well as other temporary and/or creative choices may make us feel less hopeless.

ALiza

 

[whkrazyk]

im not trying to sound negative or be offinsive, but eventually alot of species out there are going to be "run through", but not in our live times, my grandpa told me from his 40 year experiance in this, that even though there are a hundred thousand of one species being produced each year, selectively breed your favorite and make exceptional animals, and for anyone to catch up to your quality, they have to buy from you, and also form my opinion, the reptile industry has not even had a scratch put into it with all the species there are out there, theres a whole world to work with, you just have to be willing to invest your time into it, so to all you small time dealers breeding exceptional animals keep it up, me myself, i just love working with them, i breed balls, boas, and leos because i love working with them, not for the money

 

[DLS Reptile]

I agree, Last season I had so many hatchlings that it became overbearing to say the least. I was cleaning cages for an hour or more a day. I plan to get back into it but only breed no more than 3 females of different morphs. I want to work on color and size. I would like to get into super giant raptors/enigmas etc...

 

[elnott]

i just got into herp keeping. so from the outside looking in here is what i saw. over priced pets. i have a lot of hobbies and low funds like MOST other herp keepers. so spending $1000 on a reptile means less fishin trips or not getting that custom exhaust for my truck. from what i have seen is that some people pay a lot of money for that new morph then expect to get the same out of the next years babies. well guess what its not new any more and you are not the only one selling it. the market has been flooded with high end morphs mostly because people are looking for money not because they love the animals. most of the people getting into reptiles are kids. most parents are not gonna pay a lot of money for a pet their kids will likely get tired of in 3 weeks. these talks of super breeders flooding the market and hopes that they will stop producing so many hatchlings soon is crazy. they will not suffer like you and i will. why because they produce everything form high end to $10 leos. they appeal to everyone. they will not die out but the little man will. so my opinion is that if you are buying a pet in hopes of getting some $$$ out of it you are getting that animal for the wrong reason. sorry if i have offended any of you.

 

[DLS Reptile]

im not trying to sound negative or be offinsive, but eventually alot of species out there are going to be "run through", but not in our live times, my grandpa told me from his 40 year experiance in this, that even though there are a hundred thousand of one species being produced each year, selectively breed your favorite and make exceptional animals, and for anyone to catch up to your quality, they have to buy from you, and also form my opinion, the reptile industry has not even had a scratch put into it with all the species there are out there, theres a whole world to work with, you just have to be willing to invest your time into it, so to all you small time dealers breeding exceptional animals keep it up, me myself, i just love working with them, i breed balls, boas, and leos because i love working with them, not for the money

This is a very good way to look at this. This comment alone makes me feel a lot better. This is true, we haven't even come close to tapping into the gecko species.. Thanks Kyle.:main_thumbsup::main_thumbsup:

 

[eric]

The same can be said for any morph really... Even recessive... What some breeders do, including myself, to combat the morph price drop is produce the best of the best... Lets face it, the genetics alone are not enough... People will pay for quality, one of a kind animal...

Anyone can create enigmas but not everyone creates spectacular enigmas...:main_thumbsup: See what I am getting at??? I would rather work on a couple of small projects where my animals were cherry picked to produce screamers than to work with huge groups of genetics in the hopes of creating something nice... The less "by-product" the better it is for the breeder and the leo market in general...

Agreed 110%:main_thumbsup: Most of us will never be able to compete with the numbers that some of the bigger breeders are producing but when it comes to quality and refinement thats when the little guys and gals take over! Its the symbotic realationship we share.
I relate what I do to the TOP GUN school, the best of the best and then making them better! The almighty dollar doesn't drive me! Its producing the diamond in the rough that gets me boiling! There is no greater satisfaction than taken an above average gecko and making there offspring OUTSTANDING!:main_thumbsup:

David, We can continue doing what we love! Why let pricing be a determining factor! I never got into this to be rich or for a second income. The pure joy and excitement of the first hatchling of the season or showing the color of an outstanding gecko, those are the riches I receive and wouldn't trade them for anything!