Think before your Breed!!!

[BalloonzForU]

I posted this about 10 months ago on another forum, and I thought it was a good time to bring this subject back up again!!!

If you are just starting out and think you are going to make big bucks breeding Leos please think again. All the breeders here will tell you, that breaking even may be the only thing you may accomplish, if that.

It takes money and lots of it, to get to where you will even start to break even. Forget getting your initial investment back, just breaking even for feeders, eclectic bill, and vet bills is all you might do, unless you develop a new morph.

I think I can speak for most of the breeders on here, that we breed for the love of the animal. They are addictive and we love each and everyone of our pets. My little ones are pets FIRST, breeders second. It takes time to get to know the personality of each and every animal you have, which I believe is important so you know when they act different to investigate to see if they need special care, like a visit to the vet if needed or change in husbandry. I spend a lot of time with my Leos for only having 23. I get drawn in just watching them sometimes, and it takes more time then needed to care for them. But that's the joy they give back to me, so I'm not complaining at all.

In receiving that joy they give me they deserve the best care I can give or if needed care that my vet can give. I've spent well over $450 in the past month just on two Leos' in vet bills. Again I'm not complaining at all. I would gladly pay a lot more for the health and comfort of my pets. (I'm used to larger bills anyways. I spent $1,000 to have my cats ACL repaired two years ago.)

So in short, these guys don't cost too much to feed, and they will easily multiply for you, but when it comes to time and money needed for proper husbandry, and the cost of a higher electric bill and vet bills, you won't make a living breeding these amazing little creatures. Please think before you breed.

This is not directed to any particular newbie in general. But if you think I'm talking about you, then maybe I am.

 

[Russ S]

If you are just starting out and think you are going to make big bucks breeding Leos please think again.

Darn you Felecia, I was thinking about breeding so I could afford a new house.

 

[GeckoMandi]

Excellent Excellent!!

I agree 100% with everything you said there, I consider myself a newbie to breeding I haven't even got my first clutch yet! I use to hate lizards, snakes anything but turtles! I got my first Leo almost a year and I totally fell in love with that girl! 7 gecko's later MANDI'S AN ADDICT!! I think this is a hobby it's also a stress reliever for me! I love my reptiles the way I do any other pet I have.

 

[Lottiz]

Very good!

I've told teenagers at our forum in Sweden about the "money-thinking-problem". They can't understand high prices on geckos and what breeding cost. They just think we all do big money on every sold Leopard gecko...very sad...
To bring a new morph take a lot of time, space and money, off course the first offsprings for sale got high prices...and, as you told, this money are for proper husbandry, and the cost of a higher electric bill and vet bills. And if you're lucky, you can save some for new breeding groups...

/Lottiz

 

[gothra]

Well said Felicia!! :thumbsup:

I just want to add that even if you really want to breed geckos, its better to wait at least a year or two, gather some experience on how to keep a gecko first, before jumping in to start breeding these lovely creatures.

I once said something similar in another forum, but got told that "school kids need to make money too", can you believe it....?!

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Felicia,
I couldn't agree more. I stopped trying to calculate whether I was breaking even or not a couple of years ago. I figured it was a lost cause to even worry about that until I was producing some nice high end morphs. They way I see it, this is one of my hobbies, and sometimes it costs money to have a hobby like this. Obviously, the care requirements are the same whether you raise a Sunglow or a Raptor or a Normal, and it is important for people who are just starting to breed to understand that. Anyone who makes a living off of breeding any reptiles is very fortunate and the "exception" to the rule. I would definitely caution any new breeder from dreaming about making bundles of cash off the adult "insert hot new morph name here" pair they just bought. The fact is that by the time they produce enough to even break even, more often than not, the price on that morph has dropped considerably. New breeders might not realize how much time (time is money)it takes to care for large numbers of geckos or how much racks, electricity, incubators, and all of the other things to run a breeding business cost. Despite the fact that some of these things are one time investments, it shouldn't take long to figure out that it is a decent investment "up front" to make on something that might never even break even. Like Felicia said, unless you develop a NEW morph, you are not going to be rolling in the dough. It's best to consider the breeding you do a hobby or "experience", because you certainly aren't going to buy a new house (LOL RUSS..... that was too funny) with the money you make. If you don't really enjoy the geckos, you shouldn't even consider breeding them, because two turns into 10 in a hurry, and a year later, those 10 could be 100. That's a lot of little mouths waiting for mealworms and crickets when you think about it.

 

[bittner_344]

wow felicia, couldent have said it better myself, i dont think any one could have. i totaly agree with everything you said, all my geckos/snakes are no doubt pets before breeders. and yes it is hard in the begining(where i am now) but thats all about breeding. but now i have some nice leos ready to breed this season! cant wait. good luck to everyone this season!
thanks for posting
brett

 

[acpart]

Great post, Felicia. I think "think before you breed" should also apply to people who want to breed because they love their geckos and want to have more geckos connected with their pets. It's a great thing to do, but if "more" turns into "too many" it can be a big problem.

Aliza

 

[BalloonzForU]

This was my reply to the coments on my original thread, and it still aplies.

Thank you.

I'm not a long time breeder, this is my second year. But I did do the math before I got into the number of Leos I have now. I thought about the amount it would cost to feed them per month, the electric bill I already had and what it would be, how many hatchlings I could receive from breeding females(need space for them too). I did the math for my cost on the high end and income from selling offspring on the low end, then made sure I could afford to keep up with them financially. With all that said, I figured too what if I don't sell any? Then there are more mouths to feed, house and care for.

I think a lot of new breeders see what they paid for their new Leo and say wow if I can produce 12 of those from each female and I have 10 females then wow. But 9 out of 10 times you are not going to get the same price you paid for the parents out of the offspring, unless you are established and the morph price holds. New breeders think before you get in over your head. Again not to any person in general.

The only thing that's changed is this is now my third season, and I still concider myself a newbie sometimes, especially when I start to think about all the years some, like Marcia and Kelli have been breeding these guys. In the past two years (2006 being the worst) I've been lucky enough to have some great family/friends members from this site, to help me with two major issues. One a health issue, my first hatchling ever was ready to breed, and after a few days with some girls, he porlapsed on me. I was so upset, but got some great information to help me keep him comfortable, and found myself a new and awesome herp vet in the process, and this will be his second season breeding. I also had an incubator crash on me and lost 20+ eggs, and a few more with eye deformities that had to be put down. Breeding these amazing little guys can be so rewarding, but yet a heart break when something like the above happens, and should also be concidered. If you can't handle the stress of having to put down a hatchling or your favorite Leo, breeding may not be for you. We all love our herps, but sometimes we have to say good bye to them, as the humane thing to do.

 

[ReptileMan27]

I defently agree but their is a big difference between trying to breed to make money and just to breed your leos a few times, to experience the joy of hatching some babies. Like I do it more for fun, not as much to make money. I will keep a baby or two, and any others probly give to people.

 

[eyelids]

I remember this post over there... Great idea bringing it back!

I personally do not keep records of money spent because money is a pain in the butt and I don't want to associate my Leos with that. This was my first season breeding and I only had three females that became receptive and laid eggs. Out of just the three I have 42 eggs laid with 28 hatching so far and 10 infertiles. Of the 28 so far I'm holding back 15 the majority of which are female. I just ordered 2 more racks and a thermostat, a bulk order of calcium, 1000 superworms, vionate, cage liners, 2 thermometers and I know there was more. It's a lot of work and I'm a very small time breeder.

Nonetheless, I can't wait until next year and all the beautiful babies!

 

[Sandra]

Good thread. I've seen lots of teenagers that have 'delusions of grandeur' (lol) and think that they can be great breeders overnight.

But what really surprised me was a guy I saw in other forum that was saying that he 'adopted adult geckos or bought them at very cheap prices'. You could also see him telling everybody that wanted to buy a gecko to contact him, that he would sell geckos for very low prices, when he didn't even had a leo in his whole life. He bought a female from a pet store, and then he started asking things about basic husbandry and breeding! Doesn't want to invest a buck in his geckos, doesn't know a thing about them, and he is already thinking about breeding. People like this make you wonder if there are any brains inside their head.

The thing that scares me the most about breeding isn't the enormous expenses or the need of room (if someone is a bit smart, can predict these things and act consequently), but what Felicia said. I'm terribly afraid of hatching babies with deformities, I don't think I would have the courage to put them down I think I would keep them as pets and try to keep them alive, although that must be really difficult...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

GREAT thread! This Spring will be my 12th year working with Leopard Geckos. It started with two pets that I dearly loved, and then turned into a hobby. The rest is history!

Do I make a a 'profit' as a Leopard Gecko breeder? Well, it depends. On paper, I guess you could say my little business is profitable, even after all the expenses. But, when you figure getting paid for all the hours worked, usually seven days a week, I don't even make minimum wage! I don't get to go on vacation with my family during the summer because I am up to my ears in eggs and babies. During peak season, my days are sometime 10 hours long, since I am a 'one-woman' operation. I get a hundred emails and phone calls a week, many of which do not result in a sale because I am answering questions about someone's existing gecko(s).

Don't get me wrong... I am not really complaining at all! I am fortunate to be able to do something that I really love, and that has no price tag.

 

[snared99]

SO now that we are on the business end..lol At what point did you guys(if you have) get into a business license and all that red tape stuff. I know there is a certain margin you have to make before considering yourself a business, and of course not many of us break out of the red coloumn on paper. BUt when is it necessary to change things and be a "business" in the laws eyes..lol

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The laws and permits are different for every state, county, and city. Your first step would be to contact your city for guidelines for obtaining a business license.

 

[Ian S.]

Great thread!!
It is so true.
but, DANG... there go my hopes of buying a new corvette.....OH well... I know someone else I can call for some advise.

 

[BalloonzForU]

Great thread!!
It is so true.
but, DANG... there go my hopes of buying a new corvette.....OH well... I know someone else I can call for some advise.

LMAO!!! :main_laugh:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

but, DANG... there go my hopes of buying a new corvette.....OH well... I know someone else I can call for some advise.

I don't think breeding cornsnakes got 'him' that 'Vette, either.

 

[LeosForLess]

So am i the only one making millions on the forum? lol

Im down close to 1000 right now, making a total of like 100 dollars in sales and ive been into it for a over a year. This year i hope to make a lil bit so next year i may be able to break even, but i doubt it.

But there are people out there who do make a killing off other reptiles.

 

[Reptileking$]

If you are just starting out and think you are going to make big bucks breeding Leos please think again. All the breeders here will tell you, that breaking even may be the only thing you may accomplish, if that.

So are you saing I'm the only one that makes money of breeding leopard geckos. Breeding your own food saves a lot of money and I still end up making quite a bit. But when I was big into the leo breeding I flipped my stock and sold all my proven breeders except for my first 4 leopard geckos and kept a bunch from younger cluches. I can't say I made a lot but of each flip I made at least $5000. But leopard geckos started to get boring and I'm only breeding my original 4 that started everything at 2 hatchlings.

If you looking to make money and like snakes. Skip leopard gecko breeding and get into the ball pythons. If you know what your doing you can't go wrong and can make a lot of money if you got good quality snakes.