Too many Leo Breeders?

[herpman97]

Ok, I am a teen breeder, and I often get asked if I'm in it for the money or the geckos. There are only a few reasons I breed geckos. I love their beauty and the fact that they do things except sit there and look boring (like clothes). And if I do sell any, most of the money will go to the geckos food, shelter and MORE GECKOS. I have had geckos for about 3 years and didn't even have breeding in mind! So no I'm not in it for the money, but from what Brian from BHB said, I'm not ashamed of making money.

 

[Gregg M]

The Market is a bit flooded with leos at this point and animals are going cheaply... The market is at a down swing right now and will most likely be back on the up swing... If you dont like what is currentlt going on in the leo market you have a few choices... You can get out of breeding leos... You can complain about it... You can produce some geckos and dump them in the market for low prices so you can make a few bucks and gain cage space...Or you can continue to make the best examples of morphs and keep your prices higher and hold on to them if you can not sell them right away...

Now I do agree that there are a bunch of people out there breeding leos that should not even be allowed to breed meal worms... Like Robin pointed out there are many unknowledgable keepers who are doing it just to do it... The good thing is, if you really do not love something, you usually lose interest pretty quick... However, new people in the hobby should not be discouraged from becoming a breeder eventually... We all started out not knowing our butts from our elbows and now look at where some of us are now...

What I also do not agree with in this thread is how someone said

I think those that get mad and think there are too many breeders are those who arein it for the money and not for the right reason at all.

..

It all depends on how you look at and who you are looking at... I think if certain people have worked hard at something they should be rewarded for their time an energy and passion into something... I think certain breeders have the right to be upset if the market they helped build is destroyed by a few irresponsible breeders large or small...

I do not think doing it for money is any more selfish than doing it because you love it or you are having fun doing it...
The thing is to become successful in this trade, you have to love what you do... The bigger breeders are into it way more than you think and way more than the average small keeper... The bigger breeder has dedicated their entire life to these animals... It is not just a hobby for them... It is their way of life and their livelyhood... Clearly the large breeder is doing it at the scale they are for the money... You do not open facilities (not an extra bedroom you put some racks and cages in) for your hobby...

 

[KelliH]

I cringe in situations like robin mentioned because it's the geckos in that persons collection that pay the ultimate price.

--and that banner on the top of the page for $25 enigmas makes me cringe too lol okay back to minding my own

$50 Enigmas.

 

[Angel]

Seriously how much is a small breeder going to effect a large scale breeder , the small guy doesnt have his name out there and has no buisness where as the large guy has a reputable name and has a customer base already , people on here I have noticed refer certain breeders they have dealt with { I have been refered to some great ones by alot of you} Im sure what few geckos a year the small guy produces isnt going to take alot if any away from the big guys so im not sure what they are so upset about. maybe it is different where you guys are im in vancouver canada and there are very few breeders up here hence why Iv had such a hard time finding a breeder, So for me up here I dont feel like I will be saturating the market or taking from some other buisness. I think people should look at there area and check the number of breeders verse the demand for the product, and if the supply outweighs the demand then cut back on how many breedings you do or be prepared to keep more a certan year than you have in the past.
IMO I think some people have come across as they dont want more breeders period, to me it seems greedy and I dont get why, I understand people are trying to improve lines and such and I admit im not the best with genetics, Im learning and reading and researching daily. i do have a recue I WONT be breeding however I do have blizzard pair who I bought off a breeder who I am breeding and I think a simple morph like that there isnt or shouldnt be an issue. Ithought this site was to help people learn and educate them on leos and help them along the way however I have found post after post about this person thinks new breeders shouldnt breed, that person thinks new people are causing leo prices to drop and thus they are losing money boo hoo, ect ect . I think bottom line a leo is only worth what someone is willing to pay. I know I prob offended someone and I appologize but there have been offensive comments made about new breeders on here and well, Im a new breeder lol .

 

[Tony C]

--and that banner on the top of the page for $25 enigmas makes me cringe too lol okay back to minding my own

Why should Enigmas be expensive? It is a dominant morph, as soon as a few males got out to the public it was game over for their market value. Something that can reproduce itself in the first generation and in essentially unlimited numbers won't hold it's value for long. Not to mention the potential for Enigma syndrome reducing their value even more.

 

[GeckoTrouble]

I think the most important thing is the level or care and knowledge of the gecko in questions genetics.
As in any animal, a good breeder is a good thing, a bad one is terrible, not only for their own geckos but for the industry.

I cringe every time I hear about someone buying a gecko from a large chain store or from CList, with no clue as to it's hets, it's genetics health wise, it's health history and breed it just for the sake of breeding... these are the people who have no business breeding.

A good breeder will have sound husbandry skills, use the highest quality geckos of known genetics as much as is possible, with no knowledge of potential health issues in their ancestry, have no knowledge of any past health issues in each gecko which may make breeding dangerous etc, be willing to take their animals to the vet, feed a very high quality diet and finally, be responsible with any animals they produce who are disabled or otherwise should not be bred.

There are a number of people on this forum who breed who I would say meet all these requirements, and some of them go way above... unfortunately I have also seen those who don't come close... but those do not seem to stick around once they have been offered good information and don't want to listen to it.

 

[enigmaslim]

Well I think number one is the health and safety of the animal. As a animal control officer I see cases of cruelty everyday, hell I picked up a pitbull with half his nose hanging from his face and bit markes all over his body. I see people who "love" their pets but take piss poor care of them and folks who only have the animal for a status symbol and go beyond great care and vise versa. I don't think if you get your pet from here, there, or everywhere thatg makes you an unfit breeder, you one have to be truthful with your cleints, and two take your time and talk with people who know what you mayhave. Every lil guy I get I post pics of them here and ask questions about them. I got into leo's when I bought one for my son, as I researched care of them and found out how great they are I sold all 7 of my fish tanks 35g-110g and built my own custom cages. I buy leos that I like and that I would like to see there best qualities combined, I would like to have my own lines and name them after my wife, kids and uncle I lost and just a way of remembering one of my sons and uncle who passed. I also hope that my son pics up the hobby. I have a buddy that breeds pitbulls and he has given me insight from that angle and I know that getting my leos from cl, or pet** I don't know what may hide within but I'm willing to find out if the lil fella has color/markings or personality that I would like to pass on. Hope this don't make me wrong or scummy but if anyone gets a leo from me it will be well taken care for and I will let you know everything I know of its traits and what I have learned from breeding them.

 

[Angel]

EXACTLY i agree with you enigmaslim , people post pics on here and get responses like "test breed" to see what the het is ect , but then when you talk about breeding they bash you for it going "you dont know the lines why breed?" lol , if your honest with your customers why not some people just want pets why cant they be sold like that? its not like you would charge$500 for one of these , I have a high yellow I got from the petstore Im breeding with a normal baceause I have people who want those colors and they just want a "PET", then I have my tremper albino I got from a petstore who had a breeder bring them his stock when he was getting out of it and im breeding her to my blizzard.
I think the biggest thing is being honest with your customers.

 

[enigmaslim]

yup, its all on what the customer wants and you have the responsability of telling the truth. And I would rather produce my line from scratch or from a none big breeder stock, I guess that way it would feel more of my line then a TUGxHISS, and its nothing wrong with that but I wanna try and put that hard work they put in to gain their name in my own and I kno it won't happen over night but that's part of the fun. I feel conflicted about the cheap priced top notch geckos but if its a customer that's looking to breed they will go with the gecko that have the bloodlines they want so it will equal out as far as persons buying cheap geckos and high priced geckos

 

[Neo.Reptiliac]

When it comes to anything in any market. There is those who know their stuff and have the best quality. While there is others who see those people and want to be like them but cut corners cause they don't do it for the same reasons or put in as much effort as the people they want to be like. You can prevent this from happening so you might as well just accept that there is going to be a lot of wanna'bes out there. If your looking for something specific and want the best your bound to weed through the hack wanna'bes and find the ones that know what they are doing and have the best of what your wanting.

 

[robin]

i want more breeders because that will make other breeders or just keepers to possibly want my geckos and then those geckos can become part of their collection or family leased:

i aim to produce they best quality and healthiest animals for those people interested in buying them from me

also from time to time (for whatever reasons) i like giving away animals, maybe if it even just to make someones day. i have been given animals before so i like to pay it forward.

i am into leopard geckos just for the fun of it!

i think the most important thing is the level or care and knowledge of the gecko in questions genetics.
As in any animal, a good breeder is a good thing, a bad one is terrible, not only for their own geckos but for the industry.

I cringe every time I hear about someone buying a gecko from a large chain store or from CList, with no clue as to it's hets, it's genetics health wise, it's health history and breed it just for the sake of breeding... these are the people who have no business breeding.

A good breeder will have sound husbandry skills, use the highest quality geckos of known genetics as much as is possible, with no knowledge of potential health issues in their ancestry, have no knowledge of any past health issues in each gecko which may make breeding dangerous etc, be willing to take their animals to the vet, feed a very high quality diet and finally, be responsible with any animals they produce who are disabled or otherwise should not be bred.

There are a number of people on this forum who breed who I would say meet all these requirements, and some of them go way above... unfortunately I have also seen those who don't come close... but those do not seem to stick around once they have been offered good information and don't want to listen to it.

i completely agree with this except. i do not think it is a bad thing to buy from a chain store or craigslist. i mean that is not my optimal choice however sometimes these may be the only places some can find geckos or perhaps they are willing to put the time and effort into the animal (like if they are re-homing or rehabbing or rescuing). one of the large chain pet stores here have VERY nice and healthy geckos, i have even thought about buying one of them. our local chain pet store gets their leopards from reptile industries (mark bell). this store takes very good care of them. so if the animal in question is healthy and you can provide a healthy home for it i see no problem from getting one and no problem in breeding it.

 

[herpman97]

i want more breeders because that will make other breeders or just keepers to possibly want my geckos and then those geckos can become part of their collection or family leased:

i aim to produce they best quality and healthiest animals for those people interested in buying them from me

also from time to time (for whatever reasons) i like giving away animals, maybe if it even just to make someones day. i have been given animals before so i like to pay it forward.

i am into leopard geckos just for the fun of it!



i completely agree with this except. i do not think it is a bad thing to buy from a chain store or craigslist. i mean that is not my optimal choice however sometimes these may be the only places some can find geckos or perhaps they are willing to put the time and effort into the animal (like if they are re-homing or rehabbing or rescuing). one of the large chain pet stores here have VERY nice and healthy geckos, i have even thought about buying one of them. our local chain pet store gets their leopards from reptile industries (mark bell). this store takes very good care of them. so if the animal in question is healthy and you can provide a healthy home for it i see no problem from getting one and no problem in breeding it.

Maybe thats how I got a Bell Albino from a pet store! I got mine on my birthday from Petland.

 

[robin]

possibly

 

[SFgeckos]

"also from time to time (for whatever reasons) i like giving away animals, maybe if it even just to make someones day. i have been given animals before so i like to pay it forward.

i am into leopard geckos just for the fun of it!"




WHAT?!? Why would anyone just give you animals! That's completely absurd! =)

Jon

 

[robin]

heh yeah jon why?