Urgent Weight Problems!

[9AC5]

Well I'll start off by telling you that we aren't all adults. But if you come out with any rubbish about 16yr olds being incapable of looking after an animal. As I've told you, I've rescued a few from the brink. One of them was a gecko that the the previous owner had taken to a vet which said they couldn't help it. That gecko is still alive and the same size as my adults which are incidentally in immaculate condition. I don't think breeding is easy, I infact know it is very difficult. And I worked hard all through my GCSE year to have a successful breeding season. I'm also not stupid, I've got a piece of paper that proves that. I have nothing against euthanasia of animals if there is nothing that can be done, I've had pets that have been put down in the past, one when I was only 6, and I made that decision myself. So please don't get me wrong, if nothing can be done, or the chances are low, she will get put down. I'm not really in the mood for arguments, and bear in mind the fact that I am considering doing veterinary at university, so I want to help the animal. Like I said, if needs be, she won't see the end of next Tuesday. But putting it like that, you must see that it could make me feel cruel? Sorry, maybe gecko geniside was a bit far, but your opinions seemed to be aimed at almost forcing me to put her down.

 

[katie_]

Your vet classes will help educate you and you will no longer feel cruel about euthansia. Ive been there, I hear you. Until then, you may want to put your breeding plans on hold until you have a firmer grasp on your responsibilities as a breeder. Just my opinion. Please respect it. Breeding is a very adult decision. I hope you have success in your future endevours

 

[9AC5]

Ok I respect your opinion, but what you're saying is that by showing compassion and feeling cruel putting an animal down, I shouldn't be allowed to breed, even though I've had some success. But that people who have never had any success and always have them put down are ok to breed because putting them down doesn't bother them?

Just failing to see why I seem to be coming across to you as such an animal abuser, so excuse me for asking the question.

 

[katie_]

Euthanasia is showing compassion, this is what you seem to be confused about. There is not one responsible breeder out there that hasnt had to cull a deformed hatchling if the need arises.

 

[katie_]

And no, people who have to kill all their hatchlings probably are doing something very wrong. I never said that, or implied it. Please stop trying to twist my posts. It makes me very aggrivated. I understand you may be young and naive, and would like to help you make sound decisions, without feeling guilty.

 

[9AC5]

I am not twisting your posts, it is how you are coming across. And you are also failing to see that you are aggravating me, so the feeling is mutual. I nearly hit the roof when I read the 'young and naive' bit. I am probably far more mature than many of the adults here, my mates hate me for being overly mature. Stop patronising me. Age is just a figure, so I wish people like you wouldn't judge me on it.

 

[DrCarrotTail]

This is not intended to be criticism of anyone's opinion. Only my take on the issue.

IMHO the decision to euthanize is a personal one. There is no "right answer" but you do have to live with the choice you make. When you make the decision to try everything or help and animal end its fight you need to be at peace with it so you don't lose sleep at night wondering if you gave up too soon or if you caused undue pain and suffering.

I was a vet tech for seven years. During this time I saw cases on all sides of the euthanasia issue. I saw animals that were assumed to be too far gone make amazing recoveries. I saw promising cases turn into dismal heart-wrenching failures. I saw owners spend countless thousands of dollars on treatments that sometimes worked but sometimes only caused more pain. I saw some owners put down healthy young animals for superficial reasons. Everyone can criticize the decisions these people made but only the people who made them have to live with their decisions.

 

[katie_]

I refuse to argue. Maybe one day you'll understand what I am saying. In the end, its all about the animals well being, not our feelings.

 

[9AC5]

Couldn't agree more with you. And I think that bringing my age into it to try and say that I'm naive actually proved Katie to be slightly immature. Just my opinion. Hate me if you want, but I'm almost 17, I can make my own decisions, I'm not "young and naive".

And arguing with you is making me feel like a bad person, when I'm really not. I'm sorry if any offence has been taken.

 

[katie_]

My naive comment stemed from your lack of understanding of medical euthanasia, and accusing me of 'geniside'. Genocide has nothing to do with this situation at all.
I said nothing about your age. Again, youre accusing me of things that are not true.

 

[9AC5]

You really couldn't judge me from that though, especially after I apologised. Plus I think you'll find that I know exactly what euthanasia is, but I still think its cruel if she has a chance. You have only seen photos, you could never know how bad she is without seeing her.

 

[katie_]

Sorry but I never read an apology.

 

[9AC5]

Well I'll start off by telling you that we aren't all adults. But if you come out with any rubbish about 16yr olds being incapable of looking after an animal. As I've told you, I've rescued a few from the brink. One of them was a gecko that the the previous owner had taken to a vet which said they couldn't help it. That gecko is still alive and the same size as my adults which are incidentally in immaculate condition. I don't think breeding is easy, I infact know it is very difficult. And I worked hard all through my GCSE year to have a successful breeding season. I'm also not stupid, I've got a piece of paper that proves that. I have nothing against euthanasia of animals if there is nothing that can be done, I've had pets that have been put down in the past, one when I was only 6, and I made that decision myself. So please don't get me wrong, if nothing can be done, or the chances are low, she will get put down. I'm not really in the mood for arguments, and bear in mind the fact that I am considering doing veterinary at university, so I want to help the animal. Like I said, if needs be, she won't see the end of next Tuesday. But putting it like that, you must see that it could make me feel cruel? Sorry, maybe gecko geniside was a bit far, but your opinions seemed to be aimed at almost forcing me to put her down.

The apology is right there, towards the bottom. I did apologise.

 

[9AC5]

Last sentence of the quote.

 

[katie_]

If thats an apology, i accept it. I hope your hatchling pulls through.

 

[SC Geckos]

after all, one of my other hatchlings came back to me from the person I gave it to (for free as a present), it had a 1mm thick tail, 3 broken legs and its mouth was glued together with saliva. That same gecko left me to go to another owner at 30g, fit as a fiddle no vet help whatsoever. I'm not bad at this stuff

This is from one of your other posts.

Ok, so the hatchlig that broke its leg managed to heal about a week a go. It was really strong and healthy again for the first time pretty much since hatching. Then it happened again. She was ready to shed, I humidified the hot hide and kept it humid, the humidity never dropped at all. She seemed to be struggling a lot. When I came back to her later on in the day, she had mostly shed, but she had done it again!! This time she has really gone for it. She has broken 3 out of the 4 legs. There is bruising around each joint (hip, not knee) other than the one healthy leg. Is it just me or is this sounding like severe MBD? And before I get accused again, I am very careful with my leos and have NEVER dropped one. So being accused of dropping it will be quite insulting. She has been fed calcium dusted food every day and Im using one with D3 in every 3rd day. She just seems to be really fragile. The other two are absolutely fine, no problems at all, I just dont understand. I have been doing everything humanly possible to help this gecko and its just not paying off. What do you guys think is wrong with her? Is it MBD?
Thanks in advance

Maybe its' just me but it sounds like this gecko was in your care the entire time when whatever this issue was that happend.
But more importantly this is the same gecko that we are talking about in this thread and not another one of the hatchlings. This was "Your first ever hatchling"
This poor gecko has been suffering since it hatched.

 

[9AC5]

Well, the hatchling talked about in your first quote is a different hatchling to the one in the second quote. The first quote was me talking about another of the hatchlings called gaudi. The second quote is about my first hatchling who is still nameless.
so your statement has now confused me. I don't understand if you are accusing me of lying, or just simply misunderstood? Or perhaps I have misunderstood what you meant by it. But I can assure you that it isn't a lie.

Now for the more important bit. After posting I spoke to someone who told me to make a baby food/calcium/water mixture and drop it on her nose every day, twice a day as well as food. And that has meant she has got far stronger, she no longer breaks bones, her bones are no where near as rubbery as when I first started doing it, and any bone deformation you see is caused by the mbd early on, it is no longer causing her bones to deform, the damage (unfortunately) has already been done.
The reason for starting this thread was not to cause aggro, or have you say that I have let her suffer from birth (untrue), but to see if it was the reason for her slow growth.

And quite frankly it seems like you have just chipped in to make me look bad.

 

[SC Geckos]

Well, the hatchling talked about in your first quote is a different hatchling to the one in the second quote. The first quote was me talking about another of the hatchlings called gaudi. The second quote is about my first hatchling who is still nameless.
so your statement has now confused me. I don't understand if you are accusing me of lying, or just simply misunderstood? Or perhaps I have misunderstood what you meant by it. But I can assure you that it isn't a lie.

I jus t found myself reading this thread and remembered reading something months ago about a gecko with multiple broken legs that happened with no sort of fall or trauma. Sounded very odd thats why I remembered. If like you say, this is another of your hatchlings that had this same issue..... That would mean that you have had at least two hatchlings with multiple "broken legs". I am not hear to call anyone a liar. It just seems very..... odd to have this same thing happen to multiple animals. As far as this gecko suffering since it hatched...... I stand by this statment. In your other thread you stated that it hatched on the 18th (Feb. or March I can't remember) On the 4th of the following month it "broke its leg". One week after it healed as stated above it "broke 3 legs". Since then it has struggled in every aspect of life. Now like you state she is getting a little better and thats great, but that gecko has suffered alot in the 6 - 7 months of its life. There is no disputing that.

 

[9AC5]

Yes, I think that there must be MBD genetically coming from the mothers side, so I will not be breeding with her again. Every one of her offspring has had the same problems, however some of them responded more quickly to the Calcium treatment. So I am not lying. It happened to 2 different geckos, one of which I still had, and the other recovered more quickly (however when it broke its legs it was not in my care). I'm sorry, but I don't think its anyone's place to imply that I have lied. You can jet yourself over to the UK if you want, and I can solidly prove with conclusive evidence that I'm telling the truth.


I agree that she has suffered for quite a while, and during that time, I considered more than once getting her put down. Seems to me like I made the right decision not to, and no one can dispute that because they haven't seen her improve over the past 3 months. I think that saying she gas suffered for the whole 6 months is a bit harsh and insulting to me to be honest. If she had, she would most definitely have been put to sleep by now. Her bones have taken until about 2 weeks ago to get stronger. I have helped her with every shed, and feed, and she has been made as comfortable as physically possible. So I still object.

 

[ImNotYogi]

I'm still very new to leos but is it possible for MBD to be genetic in reptiles? I know there are certain bone diseases that are hereditary in humans but I've never come across genetic bone disorders in reptiles while researching leos. Or could it be that the mother wasn't given enough calcium during gestation for the babies to absorb?