W & Y?

[KelliH]

I had a thought last night and it was... could the W & Y's possibly be similar to the "White Sided" snake morphs that we have, such as White Sided Bullsnakes-
http://www.kingsnake.com/pituophis/images/adult_whitesided_bull_greg.jpg
http://www.kingsnake.com/pituophis/images/yearling_whitesided_bull_greg.jpg

White Sided brooksi-

http://www.cherryvillereptiles.com/70adult_white_sided_brooksi__head_shot.jpg
http://www.generalexotics.com/images/White-Sided_Brooks_King.jpg

White Sided Black Rat Snake-
http://www.britt2.com/exceptional/eqs/images/WhiteSided_98.jpg

Some White Sided cornsnake-
http://i625.photobucket.com/albums/tt338/adsclarke/snakes/Stone4.jpg

 

[robin]

you make a great point. hmmm but a its not uncommon to see a leo with high white sides.

 

[rickmoss95]

That is a nice gecko. I have a question. How many years has The Urban Gecko been producing W & Y's?

not really sure Kelli, i am pretty sure the white and yellows have only been in north america for two or three years, could be wrong...but not many, that is for sure!

 

[JMGreptile]

I think the one problem with the W&Y is that a lot of people expect so much from new morphs, it seems like a lot of people expect drastic differences between morphs so they can be easily distinguished from other morphs or they are eager to see something completely off the wall different looking. With the W&Y there are a lot of subtle differences when added up make them look different from a regular hypo. With W&Y we have seen head patterns I have never seen on any other leopard gecko morph. All of them have high white sides, large white bars on the nape of their necks, and clean contrast through out the body and tail. If you look at our morph update page we give a detailed description of the characteristics. This is definitely a Dominant or polygenetic trait. The first year we bred them we pretty much got a 50/50 split between normals and W&Y. This year we have been seeing a lot less W&Y in our odds. The breeder we got ours from in Poland said it was a Co-Dominant trait. There is no distinguishable difference from any of the W&Y from W&Y X W&Y crossings so that rules our incomplete dominance and Co-Dominance for sure.

There are more polygenetic traits in leopard geckos then there are in any other reptile bred in captivity. With that being said you might see a few W&Y that look very similar to hypos and some that are very different. With as much line breeding that is done with leopard geckos it definitely makes the appearance of all morphs extremely variable and some people may look at the W&Y as just being different looking but not different enough in their opinion to warrant it being a new morph.

 

[xanderville]

Very nice explanation. It gave some clarity on this morph

 

[JMGreptile]

In the first paragraph the last sentence was supposed to read like this: There is no distinguishable difference from any of the W&Y from W&Y X W&Y crossings so that rules out incomplete dominance and Co-Dominance for sure.

 

[Big Red One]

Guys,
Just seen this thread again and whatever people think, 'proper' W&Y ar definitely not just hypos...

They have completely different colouration and the majority show the white sides and paradox spotting.
I haven't managed to hatch any offspring but I am of the understanding that they are definitely 'different' too, kind of lighter in tone than a standard leo.

I have some very nice plans lined up over the next few years with these, personally I am really excited at what may come out! :main_thumbsup:

As a refresher, here's my boy.

http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=74895

 

[rickmoss95]

im not as familiar with seeing a lot of nice white and yellows in person(as alot of people probably are not), BUT i will agree with Jeff(JMG) that at least on mine, the head pattern is INCREDIBLE! that is my favorite thing about my white and yellow sunglow. i personally dont know if it is the white and yellow combined with all the sunglow traits, or the white and yellow by its self, but the head pattern and colors really got my on my boy! it is kinda hard to see how cool it is in my pic on page 3, so i will try to get a good closer head shot the next few days and post it.

 

[Wowoklol]

Uh the "Co Dom Snow W&Y" on JMGs Morph Update page..... I think I just blew a fuse. And a gasket.
That black pearl cross is slightly out of control as well.
http://jmgreptile.com/morphupdates.html

 

[rickmoss95]

Uh the "Co Dom Snow W&Y" on JMGs Morph Update page..... I think I just blew a fuse. And a gasket.
That black pearl cross is slightly out of control as well.
http://jmgreptile.com/morphupdates.html

no doubt! BUT, that whiteout zulu is INSAAAAANE!!!! WOW!!

 

[JMGreptile]

I will try to find time to post pictures of W&Y babies next to normal siblings. They are very easy to pick out as babies and W&Y seem to look the best at 2 - 3 months old. That seems to be when they display the most color and unusual markings. If you have a hard time distinguishing W&Y from hypos you won't when they are 2 months old. Some of these big W&Y that don't look that impressive were really cool when they were younger.

W&Y make some incredible crosses which is one of the most important things about a new morph especially in leopard geckos where we can put them into so many other existing traits and work on getting them into line bred traits as well.

Also thank you Ben and Rick for the compliments on our morph update projects. The Black pearl was from a Charcoal X black pearl cross bred back to a pure black pearl. The W&Y snow is super clean white and crisp and it's one example of the potential W&Y have.

 

[rickmoss95]

Jeff, gotta give credit where credit is due! You guys have some of the nicest stuff on the planet, and i look forward to getting some of it!! I will see you at the next Cleveland show. I remember the first expo i went to, some years ago, that your guys' stuff was incredible back then...and thats been a "couple" years ago...it has only gotten better! it just sucks to try to pick what i want to buy next, so many people out there have so much nice stuff. You and Thad are the ones to get from at the Ohio show though, for sure!! and that W & Y snow is SUPER KILLER, and that will be a project i play with myself! anyways, ill see you two soon, have a good one Jeff(s).

 

[fl_orchidslave]

I look forward to seeing these in Daytona.

 

[cursedj]

W&Y

I bred a W&Y male to a few females this season. some look like enigmas, some like hypos and some that are who knows what .

the male I have is a pretty normal looking hypo, was pretty sure it wasn't anything besides that but he ended up giving me some pretty neat stuff.It needs work but i see some potential and am hoping next season the combos get better and better .

here are some examples , the pics are not great ...just took them quick.

the last one is from W&Y het rap x rap , its eyes are red (snake eyes)which look really wild with the purplish body and bright yellow bands...whatever it is.

 

[xanderville]

The last one is amazing

 

[cursedj]

thanks , its a neat one for sure .i have a few others that are very similar looking from that pairing ....see what happens next season!

 

[OnlineGeckos]

Potential color enhancer without the enigma syndrome? Will buy :main_thumbsup:

 

[rickmoss95]

Jamie, those are really nice! i look forward to see what you do with them. i have 8 eggs so far from my white and yellow sunglow to different females, i will post some pics of the babies when they start hatching, and as they progress. i am looking forward to playing with this gene, i have quite a few ideas that no one has done yet. i will get white and yellow sunglows out of my first clutches that hatch, so im excited to see what they look like. good luck with yours! where did you get your white and yellow, and can we see a pic of him?

 

[cursedj]

Rick, thanks .its a neat project .I just hatched out some W&Y(het raptor) x Tangelo a few weeks ago and they are smoking .

my male originally came from A&M(matt) by way of pat Kline (LL) its a long story lol..

hes a very normal looking gecko,I really didn't believe he was anything other than that.I will get some pics of him.

 

[rickmoss95]

yeah, it is definately a cool project! im putting my male white and yellow sunglow to any female that is not bell or rainwater...my red stripe enigma gets those girls(he is the one in my avatar)...i am looking forward to see what he produces. those are killer babies bro, im happy for you! im also glad to see someone else excited about the white and yellow and not knockin it...i think people need to give us who have them, some time to work with them and see what we can do with them! ...i think those who are doubting may change thier minds after some work is done with this morph! i wish you all the luck in the world and hope you have alot of success with them, and make some cool new combo! i have a couple in mind myself...i just hope i can produce em before someone beats me to it!! good luck bro! and those are really nice babies.