Your own line...

[Jeremy Letkey]

Thank you Debbie, well thought out post. You explained you position well.

 

[dprince]

You're welcome. This has been a very interesting discussion - thanks to everyone for the food for thought!! :main_thumbsup:

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

You're welcome. This has been a very interesting discussion - thanks to everyone for the food for thought!! :main_thumbsup:

That sounded like a closing... :main_laugh:
I don't want anyone to think that this has been settled. If anyone else has an opinion, please share it. :main_thumbsup:

 

[malt_geckos]

I think a line can be called your own once you've bred it enough to get the results you want.

 

[dprince]

That sounded like a closing... :main_laugh:
I don't want anyone to think that this has been settled. If anyone else has an opinion, please share it. :main_thumbsup:

DOH!! It totally did - my bad!! :main_lipsrsealed:

Keep the conversation going!!!!! :main_laugh: I am very interested in everyone's opinions. :main_yes: Like I said, this has been very interesting.......but it's not over.

 

[DanTheFireman]

One reason I feel names in general have a useful place is easy instant recognition. Once we know what the name is attached to it is much easier to keep things straight. Example; Rainwater Redstripe = RWRS, could be Rainwater Redstripe or Rainwater Reverse Stripe. Names have worked very well for years in other areas such as orchid breeding where crosses can have dozens of species in their backgrounds.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

There are several 'lines' I can tell just by looking at the gecko. I can pick out a HISS line Electric Tangerine and one of Albey's Carrot-tails in a heartbeat. I can see the Ray Hine in many Carrot-tails and tangerines. I can also look at a Bold Stripe and tell exactly where it came from, as well as a patternless. I am beginning to spot a Raining Red Stripe and Firewater over other 'flavors' of geckos.

I really think that if you can consistently produce a distinctive morph you have worked diligently on over the years, and it is easily characterized, then you own the 'line'.

(I guess I just repeated myself in my first post on this thread...)

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

I think a line can be called your own once you've bred it enough to get the results you want.

Just something to think about... what if the person doing this has low expectations??? What if all they want is to produce high yellows??? Does that justify calling it... well anything other than an extra yellow normal?

The simple definition of high yellow use to be " no spotting on the hind legs".
Talk about low expectations compared to some of todays, not so set in stone standards. lol

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Is that it then? Does anyone have an opinion that they would be willing to share?

 

[bro paul]

I had worked on a reply earlier, but it got a little wordy...and...you know...

My answer to your above question would be "no".
I still think there needs to be something "noticeable different" about a project for it to earn it's own title. I mean, someone could try that but most people would just laugh if off...at best. The hard part is negotiating the "noticeable different" territory. I'm sure there are breeders out there with some pretty cool geckos/projects they are continuing to work on until they feel it is "different" enough to go public with.

 

[GeckoJunkie]

I hope this topic does not stop here, I have enjoyed reading it and there have been some great points made here. I think names will always be thrown out there, but as with the Raining Red Stripes, The Electrics, the Firewaters, and a few others I think as time goes on we as a "community" kinda determine whether or not the name sticks. I am sure there have been and will be some that are given names and just do not stick. We as a "community" kinda have the final say.
It would be like if I worked with super hypos and come out with some that had black feet. I started calling them Black Feet, if the "community" does not accept that they are worthy of a new name it is not going to happen. No matter how much I call them that. I think that as long as we are breeding leopard geckos and inhancing the genetics there will always be new names given. But in the end I think it will be the community that has the last word.
I will also add as I stated before that I think it also depends on how well liked or well known you are to the "community" as to what the chances are that the name sticks.

 

[Okee Reps]

Good Topic.

 

[mynewturtle]

I think you can start calling it 'your' line when you've been working with it for numerous years, and now you have the best or VERY close to the best. I'll use Albey for an example, I haven't checked his site I know he has been working with leos for a VERY long time now. But I think he has been working with SHCTB's since 2001(not sure) that would have given him 7 years of line breeding. And now at this point I think we can all agree that Albey is in the top 3 for best SHCTB's. Therefore he has been working with them for 7 years, and now is close to the best or THE best I think he has the right to call them his line.
So again, if you have been working with the morph for numerous years, and it is top 3 materiel geckos I will call it 'your' line if I buy an animal from you.

All my opinions.

 

[Franks_Geckos]

This is a great topic. I applaud Jeremy for starting the thread as well as his ability to self-analyze. There are definitely people who are recognized for their lines, and I think that is fine, so long as the time and effort to refine that line produces results that are reproducible and distinct from others of the same morph. Albey's carrot tails (as well as his dorsal striped tangerines) are very distinct and since others here have used that example most often, I will stick with that also. When you see his animals, it is really clear that they are his line. I think Dan's Firewaters are quite unique as well. There is definitely something to be said for refining a morph to the point where it is readily identifiable and therefore a unique "line". There is still so much to be done with most of the morphs out there that at some point, line breeding may lead to more morphs being represented by many people claiming "lines" of their own. I will try not to get to far away from the topic here, but something I was thinking about the other day really made me want to start my own thread but I decided this was as good a place as any to make a point or ask a hypothetical question. I often wonder if it is really important for some breeders to produce the very best examples that they can by putting in the time and developing the quality of their line, or is there pressure to just keep jumping from project to project depending on what is "hot" at the time or where a buck can be made? I think there a few ways to go in this hobby, and whether or not I actually agree with many of the breeders in the community about what they do or say, there are a few who really earned my respect for what they have done for the hobby and for refining and perfecting their lines or the morphs that they work with year after year after year. I find it refreshing that Marcia still works with Patternless and Kelli produces top-notch Bold Stripes after all of these years. I think it's great that Albey still keeps Line-Bred Snows as a specialty. I enjoy watching the envelope get pushed by Alberto just as I admire at the consistency of quality animals produced by Craig Stewart. There are certain qualities that I admire about many of the more prolific breeders and their lines, however, it's their knowledge and dedication that makes them respected in my opinion. I think many breeders have a legacy that goes beyond how many lines they have developed and this should never be forgotten. Hard work and time dedicated to the refinement of the species appeals to me more than someone dropping a ton of cash on high end breeding stock just to breed them for one or two years (showing off how awesome their hatchlings are all the while) only for them to fold up the tent and call it a day and move onto the next big thing. Now will someone please breed more ORANGE into the RaptOR already???? Geez.... I would definitely like to see that already.... Raptors that burn the eyes like Dan's Firewaters or Sunglows.... Or maybe get a Super Snow with next to no spots (without the Enigma gene).... perhaps these are things someone will develop to call their own "line" someday...

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Great post Frank!!

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Great post Frank!!

Thanks, Jeremy. I am glad you started this one. Sometimes it is good to let out feelings about the way things are and the way they should be...lol. For the record, I think your line deserves the name it has, and it is very appropriate. Everyone has opinions, but you have to take it all with a grain of salt and look at where it comes from before getting all worked up. You know how it is...:main_yes:
Relating things to sports or music always works for me.....as I prefer to look at someone's body of work over their career than look at one season's statistics (or a bands last album) before I make any judgements....

 

[preacherman]

Very good thoughts, Frank!

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

I have come to some conclusions with the help of many others thoughts.

The amount of time and dedication put into a project are important.
Although I have not come to a conclusion on the exact amount of time is necessary.
I am comfortable with 3 generations with the expected results. Consistency in reproduction is a must.

The line or morph must be easily distinguished from others.


A general acceptance of the morph or the line by the community is key.

A good reputation and standing in the hobby will play a major role here as well.


I am trying to compile a list of what it takes. This is a start. I would still love your thoughts. Adding to this list will help give everyone some clarity.

 

[Wezul]

The line or morph must be easily distinguished from others.

I haven't responded yet, but love this thread!!
I have a question though, your decision on the name Raining Red Stripe was because you were breeding Rainwater albinos. If another breeder was working on the same project only with Tremper or Bell, do you feel the Tremper or Bell version deserves it's own name? What I mean is..Rainwater,Tremper & Bell are not that easily distiguished from eath other(eyes help I know, but even then breeder's opion vary as to the morph) simply by "looking at", making them not that distguishable from one another, but if they had different names you could easily identify the gecko. Please don't take my question the wrong way, you have worked on YOUR OWN LINE of geckos for years and have come up with one of-if not the- best name for a beautiful leopard gecko morph,and we all know names come and go, but ONLY the BEST stick around.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I think Jeremy's line of red-stripe Rainwaters are very easily distinguishable morph, and unique to Jeremy's line that he developed over many years. IMO, these lovely geckos deserve to have their own morph name (and a very good one, too) as well as being noted as Jeremy's own line of geckos.