Do you think Enigmas should still be bred from??

Should enigmas still be bred from?

  • Yes

    Votes: 125 59.0%

  • No

    Votes: 87 41.0%
  • Total voters
    212
P

Purpleskyes

Guest
Debate going on in the UK forum.

Personally I will be bredding enigmas this coming season as my enigma het bell is in perfect health and the enigma morph can create such beautiful animals when out crossed.

If any of the hatchlings show problems they will be kept with me not sold on and I will not bred from that male again.

Just wanted everyone else views on it.
 
N

Nigel4less

Guest
I have 2 soon to be 3 Enigmas, which I will be breeding until I start seeing problems.
 
Gecko Euphoria

Gecko Euphoria

New Member
Messages
503
Location
Utah
Just a question, Why is the minor neurological disorder a problem???
I have A few which were purchased and I had no Ifea they were wobbley, until I got them but I honestly dont think its a problem, they live normal lives and I recently hatched around 6 babies 2months ago from one of these girls and none of the babies are showing any signs of this problem.
So honestly the enigma is one if not the most amazing morph there is and until I have concrete evidence or everyone quits breeding them or anything concrete comes up I will be breeding mine and enjoying all those beautiful babies because if the neurilogical disorder is so bad than theres alot of people who will be very mad even some of those UK friends because alot of us have bought animals with this problem and I think you can have enigmas with no problem breed em and get hatchlings with the problem, so Its a no win situation, its gonna take a lot of research and test breedings to condemn this morph especially where these nuerological disorders in my observations don't happen to all of the offspring of a disordered animal, plus they are very hardy and thrive very well so I really do not see the problem, I hinestly think it has something to do with light and stress and if we disregaurd them then we need to diregaurd the albinos and Raptors since they are very light sensitive especially when they are young hatchlings, Just my opinion, when someone who I respect and trust and who has alot of experiance with breeding tells me its a problem and not to breed I'll stop but, until then why would anyone forget about further enhancing the morph, that boggles my mind. You don't see the top breeders stopping produceing these gems, so with that said why should any one else till theres proof of major major problems like an eye defrormatie, Just my opinion, Thanks,

Adam








Nigel4less said:
I have 2 soon to be 3 Enigmas, which I will be breeding until I start seeing problems.
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P

Purpleskyes

Guest
Golden Gate Geckos said:
I'm not sure I understand your POLL question...
Click to expand...

Sorry I should explain it better. Basically the Poll is asking . . .Do you still think Enigmas should be bred from seeing as there have been problems linked with the morph such as the circling and the head tilting etc or do you think people should stop breeding them until more answers for these problems are found?
 
Golden Gate Geckos

Golden Gate Geckos

Mean Old Gecko Lady
Messages
12,730
Location
SF Bay Area
Thanks for the explanation. I voted "YES"! I've been around since a high-yellow was the newest morph, and seen literally every morph introduced. ALL of them had their issues, and with responsible breeding and outcrossing these problems went away.

I don't see anything different with the Enigma. Now, breeding an Enigma that had serious circling or other symptoms may not be a good idea.
 
Gecko Euphoria

Gecko Euphoria

New Member
Messages
503
Location
Utah
True!! I have bred an enigma that had circleing and head bobbing recently,and I will be keeping all of the babies but the 6 that hatched out enigma so far have had no signs of any problems the mom was bred to a las vegas albino male, and another enigma I have bred this year I bred to a Raptor and the first two babies which are both enigma are both seeming fine no problems, and I still have 9 eggs from her to see what happens but I honestly do not think its as big of problem as every one thinks, all though I have more breedings to do for a more definate opinion but so far I dont think its something that should scare every one away from breeding them otherwise we will never know nor fix the problem. I was told by many that you should definately not breed enigma to enigma, thats why the few I bought that are wobbley are like that I was told but the one mentioned first was one of those and like I said its babies have been totally fine so it seems its not definatley something thats passed from generation to generation in my study so far but still have a lot more research to do.






thegeckoguy said:
i heard you shouldnt breed enigma to enigma...true?
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thestack510

thestack510

Rest In Peace jmlslayer
Messages
3,177
Location
The S.F. Bay Area, California, U.S.A.
I breed Enigmas myself. I have close to a dozen Enigmas and only one circles. I think if they're not bred we are basically throwing in the towel before trying to solve the problem. It is my personal belief to date that this problem can be outbred through time. None of the Enigmas I've produced in house show any sign of the problem. I've bred the one that circles to a Snow (Non-Enigma) in order to see if his offspring do or do not develope "the spins." I am also planning on breeding him to another Snow Enigma in order to compare the ratio of "spinners" to "non-spinners." All of my findings will be well documented. At present I see no reason to not breed Enigmas.
 
crotaphytidae

crotaphytidae

New Member
Messages
370
Location
Utah
Correct me if I'm wrong but Kelli mentioned that she bred enigmas together with no problems, This would give me enough confidence to breed them together without worries.
 
Sandra

Sandra

New Member
Messages
630
Location
Spain
Gecko Euphoria said:
Just a question, Why is the minor neurological disorder a problem???
Click to expand...

Well, it IS a problem in some cases. Some won't just sping casually. Some start spinning at the slightest stimulus, which makes it very hard to feed them. I don't know if this applies to all enigmas with issues, but mine seems to have a hard time learning what things are for (doesn't sleep in hides, doesn't eat from dish, doesn't drink from water dish or lick calcium dish...), loses balance easily, has bad aim, lays eggs without having mated... I know at least another case which is as bad as mine.

I'm not saying this is the common thing, but it can happen.

On the other hand, some people just don't want to breed an animal if they have a defect at all, even if it is harmless such as tail kinks.

I plan on breeding enigmas (just not the crazy one, not really because of the defect but more because she is in no condition to breed). If I get any hatchlings that have issues I'll just keep them.
 
P

PSGeckos

Guest
Purpleskyes :) you will get more positive feed back on this forum then RFUK


Righty we bred enigma x enigma together had 4 which showed issues, which 3 have been given to our vet and 1 which we have given to Dave Davies who is working with us to get further tests done.

We are also in close contact with Steve & Kelli from Hiss and we are sharing our findings.

We then seperated them re put the male bell enig to a high yellow and a bell albino 10 further eggs 6 of which were enigma showed no signs and sold we keep in touch with everyone who buys leos from us and to this day everything is still fine

The enigma het bell female was re put with a tangerine head carrot tail a further 8 eggs laid 4 being enigma 1 tangerine enigma which we are kepping to breed from next season and 3 enigma hets which again are with new owners and everthing is 100% going well.

We will continue to work with this amazing morph and hope next season that we will produce some more stunners which are sold on to other keepers.

We will of course keep everyone updated on any new findings

Any question please feel free to ask
 
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Purpleskyes

Guest
PSGeckos said:
Purpleskyes :) you will get more positive feed back on this forum then RFUK
Click to expand...

I did think that, on RFUK most of them just want to condemn the enigma morph rather than continue with out crossing this amazing morph.
 
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