AFT x Leo eggs fertile?

[Lena]

I think it could be interesting to see what comes out. But thats the point. I mean it could be an normal animal but also a poor little one with much pain who knows that. Why test something that could harm a babygecko?
To internal structures, they mostlikely will be the same but for this same as everything we would need a prove not just saying "it looks the same so it should be" as we already know

The personal jabs aren't appreciated.

Well, testing it would be a good way to know whether or not it produces offspring that are unable to survive. Also, what if it produces something totally new and healthy? Wouldn't that be neat?

 

[BettaDragon]

It proves nothing being that mammals and reptiles can not be compared at all... Reptilian hybrids are known for their strength and fertility where as the majority of mammalian hybrids are not fertile and tend to be weaker animals in general. Infact every reptilian hybrid in the hobby thus far has proven to be very fertile.

I used it more of an example to show what happens when you cross animals that have different internal anatomy. The point's completely invalid if leos and AFT's have the same internal anatomy. No need to take it so serious.

 

[supperl]

Well, testing it would be a good way to know whether or not it produces offspring that are unable to survive. Also, what if it produces something totally new and healthy? Wouldn't that be neat?

For sure it would be butagain what if creating an unhealthy suffering creature? Just kill it because we have done a failure in our aspiration to produce something "new" for each price to pay.

Well I think everyone has to decide that on it´s own. Maybe their won´´t be a problem but as so many ppl have tried without success to do such a cross their must be a point why it hasn´´t worked well and maybe exact that point could tell us STOP.

 

[Gregg M]

I think it could be interesting to see what comes out. But thats the point. I mean it could be an normal animal but also a poor little one with much pain who knows that. Why test something that could harm a babygecko?

Nothing is 100% but the fact is that reptilian hybrids, no matter how distantly related, seem to live healthy, normal lives to the point where they reproduce and thrive.

Chances are good that if this hybrid can happen, it will produce healthy, viable neonates that will go on to produce more healthy, viable neonates.

So, why test something that can harm a baby gecko? Well the fact that we keep and breed these animals in captivity alone can harm them. Perfect example is that we breed morphs over and over to work out the genetic "bugs". What happens to the ones where the bugs were not quite worked out???
Another example. Look at what happend to alot of breeders breeding season due to chemicals that have been fed to their breeders accidentily.
What do most breeders do to animals that hatch out deformed??? They kill them and continue to breed their animals... Why???

My point is there is a risk with anything we do... Sometimes the potential of a great outcome far out-weighs the problem factor.
If breeders stopped breeding because they produced week or deformed baby geckos, we would not have all the great morphs and colors we see in the animals today...

 

[BettaDragon]

I think the way to get the best chance to get a healthy new hybrid is to do a lot more research on the chromosomes of both animals and do an intensive comparison on the full anatomy of both animals to see if there will be any incompatibilities. Also find out exactly why all the other attempted crosses failed. Many signs point to it being able to be done but with how many times this cross has failed I seriously doubt it can be done at least without the help of a lab. Also with how many times this cross has failed, could this be a pointer that perhaps a successful cross might possibly be weaker than both parents?

 

[Ian S.]

You really have to go with snakes as an example here. All the hybrid snakes are doing alot better than anyone expected. We have healthy breedable blood x ball pythons, carpet x green tree pythons, borneo bat eaters (retic x burmese) which were actually first hybridized in the wild. corn snakes x kingsnakes so on and so on. Many of the crosses such as the borneo bat eater have taken up to ten years before a group of fertiles were laid. My only point is "hard sayin' not knowin" and really hard to speculate when the possibilities are exactly that......possibilities.

edit: other snakes succesfully hybridized include: carpet x macklots, carpet x ball, ball x woma python, and woma x carpet python.

 

[Gregg M]

I think the way to get the best chance to get a healthy new hybrid is to do a lot more research on the chromosomes of both animals and do an intensive comparison on the full anatomy of both animals to see if there will be any incompatibilities.

OR, you can just attempt to breed leos to fat tails and see what happens...
The easiest and best way to test something is to actually test something...

Even if there were a difference in chromosomes, this would not dictate wether or not the cross is possible.

Even if the anatomy is different in the parent species, this does not mean the offspring will live a life of pain and suffering.

Look at carpetXwomas... One has heat pits, the other does not. Offspring are not in pain...

The point is you can look into doing it all you want and come up with nothing. If you actually do it you will get results that can either be good or bad...

 

[BettaDragon]

OR, you can just attempt to breed leos to fat tails and see what happens...
The easiest and best way to test something is to actually test something...

I'd rather find out what caused previous crosses to fail to learn from the mistakes other than blindly test fruitlessly over and over again for much longer than necessary. I think it's pretty obvious that there's some incompatibility.

 

[Crazygecko]

Well heck since there isnt to much of a difference lets start mixing higher apes with humans. woot. now my kids will be able to swing from trees.

 

[Gregg M]

Well heck since there isnt to much of a difference lets start mixing higher apes with humans.

Do you think it has never been attempted???

 

[BettaDragon]

Yeah, a Soviet doctor under Stalin tried to create a race of human-chimp hybrids to make a super army for Stalin.

 

[Gregg M]

Yeah, a Soviet doctor under Stalin tried to create a race of human-chimp hybrids to make a super army for Stalin.

From what I have read, he may have been closer to doing it than is let out...

That would be great, a race of humans that throw fecal matter at you as you drive to work... LOL

 

[Ian S.]

From what I have read, he may have been closer to doing it than is let out...

That would be great, a race of humans that throw fecal matter at you as you drive to work... LOL

Oooh Oooh! or the ones that masturbate and throw it in your eye while ordering a java at the drive threw. :main_laugh: :main_thumbsdown:
Thank god those went down the toilet!

 

[BettaDragon]

From what I have read, he may have been closer to doing it than is let out...

That would be great, a race of humans that throw fecal matter at you as you drive to work... LOL

Yeah, he failed doing human male female chimp. He then got a woman to volunteer to do a female human male chimp cross. The male chimp died before the could try the cross and Stalin shut him down before he could get another chimp.

 

[Crazygecko]

Actualy the chimp didnt die. They just found out I wasnt a chimp. sighh the things I do for love.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL!!! This could explain why my younger brother always picked his nose and flung it at me!

 

[Crazygecko]

LOL

 

[BettaDragon]

LOL!!! This could explain why my younger brother always picked his nose and flung it at me!

at least it wasn't poo! :main_laugh:

 

[mynewturtle]

I didn't take time to read the thread, and I probaly won't. I tried doing this cross last year and got infertile eggs, 16 of them i bred two females. I think this is very unlikely that he has fertile eggs if he does he, hats off to him there have been a lot of infertile eggs from the pairing.

I personally don't think hybrids are bad.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Take a moment, if you will, to examine a leo like my own. In the wild she'd stick out like a sore thumb. While the traits exist and can be enhanced, that's not to say that they are natural. Quite the contrary, they don't exist in the wild because they would leave the leos at a disadvantage. In that way, I feel that selective breeding and hybridization are one in the same. Both activities encourage things to occur that would not otherwise happen naturally.

Perhaps! But here are some Afghan folks who claim otherwise: http://afghangeckos.netfirms.com/index.htm

Now, THIS is what I call a Human Animal hybrid!!!