Black Pearl

[Sunrise Reptile]

Hyper now super hyper if anyone can achieve removing the pattern and making a solid black/dark brown leopard gecko.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse with this statement. Even the breeder says the the trait is "either" recessive or co-dominant. So unless the trait is proven co-dominant, it's premature and potentially incorrect to use the words "super hyper" as you did above. Let's just wait a bit, give breedings some time to take place, and listen to those results before we get all excited. That would be my suggestion. :main_yes:

 

[Brewster320]

.... it would be silly to buy a co-dom or polygenic traight for 3 grand ....

Go tell that to ball python breeders....

I personally like this morph and it's future potential! I'd love to see it crossed in to snows and blizzards and see the results!

 

[skmcwilliams]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse with this statement. Even the breeder says the the trait is "either" recessive or co-dominant. So unless the trait is proven co-dominant, it's premature and potentially incorrect to use the words "super hyper" as you did above. Let's just wait a bit, give breedings some time to take place, and listen to those results before we get all excited. That would be my suggestion. :main_yes:

That is why I said "If anyone can achieve". I also was not referring to a "super" morph like with co doms. I meant more like sunglow, hybino. As in what happens to the hypo trait when bred in with other combo's of morphs. I still feel that if the black pearl is recessive you could still potentially remove the pattern. like blizzard, patternless, etc. That is what I was trying to say. But like you said only time/breeding will tell, not trying to push the cart out there.:main_laugh:

 

[Redleg]

Kendra, either way, I am jealous that you and a few others that were lucky to get a hold of one of these Black Pearls to work with.

But only YOU and a select few will be able to work with these beauties while the rest of us will write about it or guess what the Black Pearls' are all about :main_cool3:

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Super is a term applied to co-dominant traits, as with Hypo and Mack Snow. It's not appropriate, at least not at this point in time, to apply that term here. And I'm not knocking the morph by any stretch of the imagination. I'm simply stating genetic fact.

If indeed we have a new genetic trait, as the initial findings would indicate, then this is indeed exciting. Will I go out and prematurely drop $3k on the table? Unlikely. But I think, given the appearance of these, the Blizzard would be the morph to cross these to. I can't wait to see this future pairing. So all you so-called "Pioneers", I wish you all the luck in the world. I'll be waiting impatiently for your results! :main_yes:

 

[skmcwilliams]

Super is a term applied to co-dominant traits, as with Hypo and Mack Snow. It's not appropriate, at least not at this point in time, to apply that term here. And I'm not knocking the morph by any stretch of the imagination. I'm simply stating genetic fact.

If indeed we have a new genetic trait, as the initial findings would indicate, then this is indeed exciting. Will I go out and prematurely drop $3k on the table? Unlikely. But I think, given the appearance of these, the Blizzard would be the morph to cross these to. I can't wait to see this future pairing. So all you so-called "Pioneers", I wish you all the luck in the world. I'll be waiting impatiently for your results! :main_yes:

Okay I do understand what you are saying but again I don't think I am making such a bold statement to say that combining recessive morphs with others could make it with no pattern, I guess techincally at that point someone would add some crazy name instead of calling it super, correct? Since super is supposed to apply to only co dom morphs, is that what you are trying to say?

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

If Black Pearl gene proves to be co-dominant, then fine. But not if the trait is recessive.

Super Hypo refers to two copies of the Hypo gene, Super Snow refers to two copies of the Mack Snow gene. For you to be able to name an offspring "Super Black Pearl" or "Super Melanistic", the genetics would first have to be proven co-dominant. That's just the way it is.

 

[skmcwilliams]

If Black Pearl gene proves to be co-dominant, then fine. But not if the trait is recessive.

Super Hypo refers to two copies of the Hypo gene, Super Snow refers to two copies of the Mack Snow gene. For you to be able to name an offspring "Super Black Pearl" or "Super Melanistic", the genetics would first have to be proven co-dominant. That's just the way it is.

Okay see above post I changed my statement to reflect what I think I mean and what I think you mean. Not saying you are wrong, just thinking you are not understanding what I am saying. I have no idea if the black pearl is co dom, hoping it is not really.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

The only thing I'm trying to point out is the use of the term "Super" as it stands today. I'm just saying, until we know how the genetics work, we shouldn't do any premature naming.

Look, even the "Super Nova" refers to the animal being a Super Snow. But again, it refers to a co-dominant trait. I hope you do understand what I'm getting at. I'm not arguing with you. I just think that, at this point in time, we should wait for some definitive results as to the genetics of the Black Pearl.

And with that, I'll go back to watching what others have to say about this very interesting topic.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

I have never questioned the animal being it's own trait whatever that may be. I question releasing an animal and have no clue what it is genetically.
I think more work needed to be done before introducing it to the public.

As far as my experience i have no been around for when a new morph has been introduced but i'm very much so intelligent enough to look at the past and see what is going to happen.

Would it be cool to work with this animal? Maybe. Time will tell to see what the new owners do with it, but i certainly hope it will be more involved in line breeding attempting to "color" or lack of color them up. As well as bring some patterning into them.

I would love to see someone that gets those animals not release anything to the public and work out their genetics first. It's wishful thinking but maybe someone will do right by the morph and prove what it is.

 

[skmcwilliams]

The only thing I'm trying to point out is the use of the term "Super" as it stands today. I'm just saying, until we know how the genetics work, we shouldn't do any premature naming.

Look, even the "Super Nova" refers to the animal being a Super Snow. But again, it refers to a co-dominant trait. I hope you do understand what I'm getting at. I'm not arguing with you. I just think that, at this point in time, we should wait for some definitive results as to the genetics of the Black Pearl.

And with that, I'll go back to watching what others have to say about this very interesting topic.

Okay I will take that as a "please stop posting your ignorant gentetic knowledge towards me".

Well then I will put this out to everyone, If the definition of hypermelanistic is a increase or brown/black pigment. Hypo the opposite, lack of brown/black pigment, and hypo is a co dom morph then if the black pearl ends up being a recessive gene would it still be a hypermelanistic morph even if it is not co dom like hypos fall into the category of but still meets the definition of a hypermelanistic?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I think what Craig is trying to explain is that the "black pearl" is a PROVEN MORPH, meaning that the physical traits of the "black pearl" can be genetically passed on to the next generation's offspring.

However, at this current time, without further testing and breeding, the "black pearl" GENETICS are uncertain- either being recessive or possibly co-dominance. Either way, IT IS A MORPH.

This is how I interpreted Craig's statements as well. There is no disputing that the Black Pearl is a reproducable morph, but until the genetics are proven I will hold off from dropping 3K... besides, it would be just my luck that the female would pass away or be infertile, LOL!

Since there are only young females available at this point, it will be a complicated task to discover anytime soon. A female is only as good as the male she is paired with, and at best she could be crossed with only 2 males in one season. It would take a year before the offspring could be bred back to the mother or to each other to prove the genetics. On the other hand, a male could be bred to several females... and if the gene is co-dominant, there would be LOTS of Black Pearls within one year and the market would soon be full of them and the price would become more competitive. We can all learn a lesson from marketing and subsequent population explosion of the Mack Snow and/or the Enigma.

We all can become quite opinionated when it comes to the introduction of a new morph before it's genetics are proven. This is to be expected. But let us refrain from making negative comments or attacks about the personal or ethical actions of the person/breeder or business, and keep the discussion on the gecko morph itself. :main_thumbsup:

 

[crotaphytidae]

There is only one hypo line that falls under mendelian genetics and that is the Ghost produced by Ray Hine, those are a hypo that is passed on as a dominant gene/ allele. All the other hypos out there including super hypos are polygenic. "Super" is not a genetic term and was coined when the first reptilian co-dominant morph hatched i.e. the tiger retics. when two were bred together they produced offspring with a new phenotype and it was found that this was the homozygous form and they called it a Super Tiger. Super Hypo is just a term to express the animal has an decreased amount of spotting and more orange. With this morph if someone decided to call the animals with even more black and less pattern as a Super that is their choice I think, as Konrad did when he had them.

 

[Hacksaw]

As far as me not being fond of a brown leo being called a black is my opinion that I am free to express... I was also expressing my opinion that it would be silly to buy a co-dom or polygenic traight for 3 grand especially if it is going to make brown leos...

lol, why do you have to be such a ball buster all of the time?

thats like saying your not going to by an $1000 red stripe because it will not produce perfect red stripes. LINE BREEDING, LINE BREEDING.



it has been nice talking to you again, gregg

 

[Malibu Barbie]

Listen.... In February I wrote to LA asking him about the prices of the 6 or so females he posted for sale on his site...... They WERE for sale.

Never mind, I'm just really confused.

 

[skmcwilliams]

This is how I interpreted Craig's statements as well. There is no disputing that the Black Pearl is a reproducable morph, but until the genetics are proven I will hold off from dropping 3K... besides, it would be just my luck that the female would pass away or be infertile, LOL!

Since there are only young females available at this point, it will be a complicated task to discover anytime soon. A female is only as good as the male she is paired with, and at best she could be crossed with only 2 males in one season. It would take a year before the offspring could be bred back to the mother or to each other to prove the genetics. On the other hand, a male could be bred to several females... and if the gene is co-dominant, there would be LOTS of Black Pearls within one year and the market would soon be full of them and the price would become more competitive. We can all learn a lesson from marketing and subsequent population explosion of the Mack Snow and/or the Enigma.

We all can become quite opinionated when it comes to the introduction of a new morph before it's genetics are proven. This is to be expected. But let us refrain from making negative comments or attacks about the personal or ethical actions of the person/breeder or business, and keep the discussion on the gecko morph itself. :main_thumbsup:

Marcia,

I am quite sure you must be gun shy after the Mack super snow fiasco you had. I felt so terrible when I heard you mention that and I have some worries too about $3000 ending up belly up as it sometimes can happen, at least Craig has a health guarantee for 30 days, but there is always the risk and like you said with infertility, this is a new morph so you never know if there could be something that makes them not produce as well. Always a gamble.

As far as TUG and Craig releasing them possibly to soon. He was nothing but upfront from the very begining that even though he knew them to be genetic he wasn't sure himself if recessive or co dom. Now I think it is the responsibility of those who buy from him to also not make any false claims as to what they are when selling offspring until it is confirmed one way or another. I knew exactly what my money has gone for, no wool pulled over these eyes so I don't think Craig should be chastised for any reason. Let's just hope the future of the beauties aren't muddled in scandal by those who would make false claims on what they are for several seasons to come.:main_thumbsup:

 

[skmcwilliams]

Listen.... In February I wrote to LA asking him about the prices of the 6 or so females he posted for sale on his site...... They WERE for sale.

Never mind, I'm just really confused.

I think it took one phone call from Craig to stop that because they all went from being available to being on hold and then sold right around the time Craig put in the offer to buy the whole project. I don't think anyone had commited to buying any before he took things over.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Okay I will take that as a "please stop posting your ignorant gentetic knowledge towards me".

Not at all my intent to come accross that way. I just thought it best not to keep hashing out the whole trait thing. We'll eventually find that out. But before we do, I don't want to speculate.

Well then I will put this out to everyone, If the definition of hypermelanistic is a increase or brown/black pigment. Hypo the opposite, lack of brown/black pigment, and hypo is a co dom morph then if the black pearl ends up being a recessive gene would it still be a hypermelanistic morph even if it is not co dom like hypos fall into the category of but still meets the definition of a hypermelanistic?

I'm not sure the name of the trait really makes that much of a difference, based on if this trait ends up being recessive or co-dominant. What I have seen from Craig's posts are hints that this will end up being a co-dominant trait. If so, I guess this is a non-issue. If it ends up being a recessive trait, I don't see why it couldn't be called hypermelanistic. But I do see where you're coming from with this question. I guess it all depends on your viewpoint. :main_yes:

 

[Gazz]

hypo is a co dom morph

Hypo is dominant with Tangerine,Baldy,carrottail AND super all being polygenic traits.

Hypo-[Dominant].
Hypo tangerine-[Doninant & polygenic].
Super hypo tangerine-[Polygenic & dominant & polygenic].
'etc'etc.


Male is a Super hypo tangerine carrottail [pic1].Female is a hyper spotted normal(in the bottom right of the picture with the offspring)[pic 2].Offspring from left to right.Hi-yellow normal,Hypo,Super hypo,Normal [pic 2].

So hypo is't Co-dom as there would be NO! normal or super hypo offspring.If hypo was was Co-dom the offspring would be 100% hypo from a super hypo sire.Offspring of the breeding below is 50%hypo & 50%normal like you'd find with a (1 copy) dominant hypo.

 

[SteveB]

The sad part is, the sooner someone spends the $3000, the sooner we can start seeing them at $300.

It's too bad we can't organize a breeding facility dedicated to mass producing outcrossed specimens of every new morph and establishing a stable population and a reasonable market price. I stand by that statement, in theory...