Black Pearl

[skmcwilliams]

From what I understood when I was talking to Craig is that he aquired only two back in September(and only after pestering LA to death). He did some breeding to see what his thoughts were on the genetics. It was only recently the last few months that he was contacted by LA saying he was moving and had to part with the collection so he bought the whole thing. I believe LA was going to put them out to the public but Craig came in with a Kings Ransom offer and stopped that from happening. I don't think LA has updated their website in a long time hence why they still saying they will have them available. If anyone else has better info I am sure they will chime in. Craig did tell me multiple times that he is the sole owner now of the "black pearls" now.

 

[hybrid]

They are for sell to the public right now. I just checked www.theurbangecko.com and found them in the Available list!!! w00t

 

[Gazz]

I was always taught that the Black Panthers was a "black version" of the Leopard as well. If you look at the both side by side, u can actually see the came cat, just diff color of coat.

There's a few big cats when black that are to as panther.

Black Jaguar are called panther.
Black Leopard are called panther.

And the cougar is refered to as panther-(But there not black).

 

[Sidviciouser]

I think its a great new gecko, but it's not my bar of chocolate. Even though it's different, I'm into color. I hope they do well with it. I would like to see one with red eyes. I would also like to see pics of them on a white background. I can hardly see them on the black background.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

A panther is like a leopard
Except a leopard hasn't been peppered.
Should you behold a panther's crouch
Prepare to say 'ouch'.
Better yet, if called by a panther
Don't anther.

- Ogden Nash

 

[Halley]

But LA still says they are breeding them and will have them available this year? So there is no "exclusive" breeder/owner. Is this a wrong fact?

I think it would be neat to have one. Like a lot of other morphs, just remember, what we think about the genetics could change, so I hope no one gets all mad because they think it's one thing, but ends up being something else. People just have to work together and try diff pairings to figure out what's going on.

Just looks like it hypos out the albino to me.

Do you mean the Black Velvets? http://blackvelvets.dinstudio.se/text2_4.html

Correct me if im wrong, but didn´t Konrad release some a few month ago ?
On TUG´s site it says that non of the offspring have been sold - I don´t get it - What am i missing ???

Yes, I think he did.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

I simply find doing the genetic research that someone failed to do before introducing the morph logically doesn't make sense. I see no different between the Black Pearl and the Giant. 2 great morphs just really improper research done before releasing them to the public.

This tale has been told before and we already know how it ends. So why even open the book? It wasn't a good story the first time.

 

[Craig Stewart]

I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank everyone for all their comments about this project. For us we couldn’t be more excited and it seems the majority have received the project with great enthusiasm. For those who are less enthusiastic I really appreciate your comments as well. I think it’s important that anytime something new comes into the marketplace people have the opportunity to review the feedback of others whether it favors the project or not. As the principal owner of the Black Pearl I definitely want to see everyone as excited as we are but the reality is different strokes for different folks. If we all like the same thing it would make for a pretty boring line-up of morphs and wouldn’t push us as breeders and enthusiasts to develop and collect the odd and unusual.

There are definitely a couple of issues that need clearing up. First off the Black Pearl is a proven genetic mutation or other words a proven morph. For example you breed Black Pearl to Black Pearl you will hatch out 100% Black Pearl babies and when Black Pearl is crossed to its “normal” looking siblings the results are 50% Black Pearl offspring. This is fact (I could go into further detail on genetic results but it is all on our site) We know from these results that the trait is being inherited in one of two ways, it is either recessive or co-dominant. Knowing this is very different than not knowing if you can reproduce the trait again. For example, what I understand about the Black Velvets is the breeder has not been able to reproduce them consistently and has had random success. This and this alone confirms for us that the Black Velvet and Black Pearl are not the same. In fact, we are not aware of any other proven genetic hypermelanistic mutations other than the Black Pearl. However, I am aware of many projects where these dark traits are being line bred or selectively bred but this is not the same. Please know that I am not knocking these projects because the results of some of these are very cool looking and I know some breeders have committed allot of time and effort to them. All I am stating is they should not be confused because they are not the same.

The second issue I would like to clear up is the ownership of this project. Konrad Wlodarczyk was the sole owner of the Black Pearl and he had not sold or released any from his collection. He offered the collection to us and I acquired the entire collection giving us the exclusive ownership of this project. Therefore, the Black Pearl does not exist anywhere else nor has it been sold to any other parties other than The Urban Gecko. We have since offered eight females for sale on our web site, five of which are now sold.

I have included a photo I took of a typical Black Pearl baby. Whether the Black Pearl project excites you or not there is no denying that these are a completely different and new Leopard Gecko morph. To date I am not aware of any other proven Leopard Gecko morph that emerges from the egg as a solid black gecko from the tip of the noise to the tip of the tail and matures into an extreme hypermelanistic adult. For me these are an incredible new morph and we are thrilled to be working with them.

Best regards,

Craig Stewart
The Urban Gecko
Tel: 905 264-5557
Email: [email protected]
Website: www.theurbangecko.com

 

[herpencounter]

Thanks for the info!

 

[spykerherps]

Black Pearl to Black Pearl you will hatch out 100% Black Pearl babies and when Black Pearl is crossed to its “normal” looking siblings the results are 50% Black Pearl offspring.

Just for clarification. if you get 100% BP offspring how would you have "normal" looking siblings.

Respectfully Submitted
Zach

 

[boutiquegecko]

Could they be a new subspecies? I'm just curious as they came from w/c and it's amazing that a new gene just popped out.
Do we know if the parents are still alive and if so has anyone gone back to the zoo to see if any other odd geckos have been hatched out, or to see if the parents can be purchased and worked with? I'm wondering if they had any "normal" looking babies if they carried the gene.
Craig, have they been crossed with Macks or Enigmas yet and what has been the outcome % wise?

 

[crotaphytidae]

They couldn't be a new subspecies as they were randomly hatched from the WC stock at a dutch zoological garden from normal looking specimens. When you have WC stock you can get genes to pop out suddenly and unexpectedly. Unfortunately the original animals that gave us these offspring (2) died in an accident at the zoo and the original person who bought the offspring was the only person at the time with the BP. Then the two grew up and the female died before breeding. So the original male BP was then bred to normal females (1 or many I don't know) and all the neonates hatched as normals then these offspring were bred back to the original male and half popped out as BP. My opinion of the genetics is that it is recessive and that the darker normals could just be het markers.

If Craig has bred them to Macks or Enigmas is a mystery but he has had them for a little while and may not have had the time to cross them into other projects. Time will give us the Mack BP and Enigma BP and I can't wait.

I think next year I will surely get these animals and have some fun with them.

 

[Gazz]

There are definitely a couple of issues that need clearing up. First off the Black Pearl is a proven genetic mutation or other words a proven morph. For example you breed Black Pearl to Black Pearl you will hatch out 100% Black Pearl babies and when Black Pearl is crossed to its “normal” looking siblings the results are 50% Black Pearl offspring.

Hi have you tested yet wheather maybe codominant or incomplete dominant.

With this color shade maybe being the (Heterzygous) version (Black pearl).
http://theurbangecko.com/images/pop_up/available/blackpearl/6a.jpg

AND.

With this colour shade maybe being the (Homozygous) version (Super black pearl).
http://theurbangecko.com/images/pop_up/available/blackpearl/1a.jpg

Have you bred any to a normal(unrelated) rather that a normal(sibling related).What color shade did you breed to get 100%black pearl.Was they both the same shade as if you bred for example a super BLACK pearl(HOMO) to a black pearl(HET) you'll get 50%black pearl(HET) & 50%Super BLACK pearl(HOMO).Super BLACK pearl(HOMO) to a super BLACK pearl(HOMO) you'll get 100% super BLACK pearl(HOMO).black pearl(HET) to a black pearl(HET) you'll get 25%super BLACK pearl(HOMO) & 50%black pearl(HET) & 25%normal all being based ofcouse on a Codominant or incomplete dominant basis.Ofcorse i know you know your genetic i'm trying to say there quite differant in there shade of colour and there maybe somthing in this.And what colour shade of black pearl was use to bred back to it's normal sibling that resulted in 50%black pearl.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Thanks for posting the pics on a white background, Craig... what an awesome little gecko! If those little ones kept that color into adulthood, I would buy it in a heartbeat. So, I am very interested to see how this morph develops at it matures, and to know whether it is co-dominant or recessive.

 

[justindh1]

I am curious too about what happened to the original wild caught leopard geckos that this genetics came from. With several years of breeding done on this morph, the stock of geckos that have this genetics could be larger then people think.

It may be a proven morph but the gentics arn't proven yet! The first owners of this morph are still going to be quessing at the results from their breeding project. The will be testing this morph along with the owners to the colony right now.

This geckos goes in phases based on the websight so buying one that is mostly black isn't garanteed to be that dark at adult age. I hope that it does come out to be a great new morph that hasn't been overhyped because a all black gecko is awesome to think about and this could be the first steps to that. If its a co-dominate morph then i'll wait for a few years to pass because the price will drop a lot faster then if its recessive. Either way i'm excited to see what comes of this.

 

[PacHerp]

My opinion of the genetics is that it is recessive and that the darker normals could just be het markers.

Good point Cameron, thanks for the detailed explanation... hopefully it can help get some folks thinking along the right track. I completely agree with you here, it does sound like it could be a recessive mutation, but again, we will have to wait and see...

I seem to raise this question myself - If the mutation was a simple dominant trait from wild caughts, wouldn't you think we would have seen this mutation by now? I sure do... leopard geckos have been bred in captivity for quite some time now.


@Craig - Thank you for your post, it really says a lot about your character and your enthusiasm about this morph to come discuss with us about the Black Pearl publically on this forum. :main_yes: If only other breeders would do the same...

I am curious too about what happened to the original wild caught leopard geckos that this genetics came from. With several years of breeding done on this morph, the stock of geckos that have this genetics could be larger then people think.

@Justin - with all respect, I'm getting a little tired of this frame of mind - it sounds more like a 'conspiracy theory' than anything, to me. Can we move past this way of thinking please? from what I can gather, both Konrad and Craig are confident that they are the ONLY people to ever have these animals.

 

[Gregg M]

I am sorry but this has not even been proven to be a legit morph... I am not sure why one would even add one to their collection for that price... I for one would not want to turn what would normally be bright animals, into turds with legs... People spend thousands to add color to their projects, not degrade them...

As far as them being black, I know they are not. I do feel they will by a true hyper melanistic gecko. Craig explained it as how they look like a black panther, as black panthers are super dark but you can see the original pattern underneath and this is the same for the black pearls.

Actually it is not the same because the black LEOPARD is proven to be a recessive gene making them true melanistics... The black pearl is not proven and in my opinion it is a polygenic traight that may act like a recessive or co-dominant like every other polygenic traight...

Show me a real melanistic leo and I WILL spend 3 grand... Try to pass off a brown leo as some new black morph that has not even been close to being proven and I am laughing...

 

[PacHerp]

...

I am sorry but this has not even been proven to be a legit morph... I am not sure why one would even add one to their collection for that price... I for one would not want to turn what would normally be bright animals, into turds with legs... People spend thousands to add color to their projects, not degrade them...

Show me a real melanistic leo and I WILL spend 3 grand... Try to pass off a brown leo as some new black morph that has not even been close to being proven and I am laughing...

This is the only way I know how to respond to your post, Gregg.

What I'm also gathering from the reaction on this thread, it seem people think that breeders who release new morphs are just simply passing along the 'work' of proving the morph out to their customers, and the breeder then walks away with all the cash and the reputation. I don't see it this way at all, but maybe I'm too much of an optimist. I feel that working with rare new mutations and morphs such as the Black Pearl is a PRIVILEGE... and nothing less.

If you don't want to work with the mutation, then simply, don't. But don't sit around putting down those who are interested in this project and are extremely excited to have the PRIVILEGE of working with this new morph.

signing out...

 

[justindh1]

@Justin - with all respect, I'm getting a little tired of this frame of mind - it sounds more like a 'conspiracy theory' than anything, to me. Can we move past this way of thinking please? from what I can gather, both Konrad and Craig are confident that they are the ONLY people to ever have these animals.

It may sound like i'm talking about a conspiracy theory to you but i think its a question that i would like to hear the answere to. It hard and stupid to create a consperacy when you want this morph to be a success. Is it a bad thing that i would like to know what happened to the original WC leos or wonder how many are actually allive with this genetic trait. I just think that there needs to be questions to understand things more. Theres a big differance if theres a half dozen with this genetics or several dozen. I am excited about this morph and hopefully it does prove out to be for everyone who likes leos and the owners of this morph right now. If you don't ask questions then you can't fully understand everything.

If you want to spend three grand on a gecko not knowing how many are out there right now, not knowing what happened to the originals, and not for sure what the percentage of black on it will be then go ahead.

I just think its important to know everything you can about a morph to fully understand it exspecially if its new and the genetics are still IFFY at best.

 

[Gregg M]

This is the only way I know how to respond to your post, Gregg.

Relax Britt, I am voicing my opinion and putting my special brand of humor in as well... Seriously, you all should know me by now...:main_laugh: