Enigma abnormalities poll

[KelliH]

How 'bout a Patty Enigma update?

Perhaps in another thread.

 

[lytlesnake]

The breeder I got the enigma het tremper females from only had two. I originally purchased one of them. The breeder did not put the name of the species on the outside of the box. The agriculture department opened the box. The gecko dropped her tail. I was not pleased. The breeder was not happy with this either, and had other shipments with problems that week. So I asked the breeder to sell me the second one at half price rather than refund half my money. The breeder went to the trouble of getting a ProPak box from a friend to further protect the second gecko that was shipped to me.

So I open the box and the gecko is shaking. After all the troubles this breeder had been through with shipping that week, I just didn't have the heart to tell this person that there appeared to be something wrong with the second gecko. I hoped it was just shipping stress and that she would snap back to normal soon.

Yes these are the only 3 enigmas I've had, and I knew when I typed that part about them either having problems or not that I would be called out on it. I have a hard time believing that one stressful incident (shipping) would make a gecko permanently stressed. My geckos are kept in a quiet room, Shaky has no stress in her life other than her apparent neurological issues. I think this gecko has inherent problems that are not related to stress. However, I'll admit that other enigmas may only walk in circles when they are immediately stressed. If this is the observation of people who have much more experience with enigmas than I, I will not question it.

The person who told me to breed her anyway was not the breeder I purchased her from. This person is a friend of that breeder though, and also recommended that I don't tell the breeder about the second gecko's problems because it would have been devastating to them. Then that person eventually did tell the breeder about it. The breeder was apparently "floored" by this information, but has not contacted me.

As I stated, I did not get into leopard geckos just for the money. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some kind of return on an investment though. However, I agree, there are no guarantees when investing in anything.

I was not trying to make behind the back insinuations about you specifically Kelli. I guess it came off that way though, so all I can do is say I'm sorry for that. I thought that other breeders had them early on too. All I was trying to say is that I didn't read anything about enigmas exhibiting strange behavior until after I had bought them. Two out of three of my enigmas seem to be fine, but Shaky is definitely messed up. I will not breed her... ever. I can only strongly implore other people to do the same. If your enigma exhibits strange behavior, it would probably be best for the gene pool at large if that gecko were not bred.

Again, I apologize Kelli. It's just that this has been bugging me for months. I hadn't given it much thought lately, but when I saw this thread I overreacted.

 

[KelliH]

Jason,

We've already spoken on the phone so you know how I feel
It's just frustrating to hear second and third hand stories and insinuations, and I guess I just needed to vent as well. Thanks for being so cool and understanding, and also for listening.

 

[lytlesnake]

If I may reply to myself... I am in no way upset with the breeder I purchased the "special needs" enigma from, or the good friend of that person who is a fellow breeder. In fact, that friend offered to replace the gecko out of their own pocket, as the breeder I bought her from was already stressed enough about other shipping issues with geckos. Both of these breeders are really good people and I don't want my comments to make it seem like I'm saying otherwise.

The Enigmas are a new morph and I think we all just need to stay positive about them and work through whatever issues some of them may have. I know that several of the best breeders have already adopted that attitude, and I'm sorry that I allowed my frustration to turn into negativity. Really I've just been super stressed out lately because I've bred too many feeder mice and it's taking over my life. Not to make excuses, but man, I've got to figure out this CO2 tank fill station and get rid of these damn mice before I completely lose it. Friends are starting to worry!

Oh, and I hope to get to work on that enigma/giant patty morph soon!

[edit] Just saw your post Kelli. Thanks for calling, and again, sorry for being negative in my first post. For everybody, I truly believe that Kelli nor anyone else could have foreseen that some enigmas would exhibit this strange behavior. None of us are genetic scientists, and even if we were, when a new morph pops up like this, there is always the potential for things we don't fully understand. It's nobody's fault, it's just nature. Also, just because a gecko walks in circles, it's not the end of the world. For example, Shaky is an absolute sweetheart of a gecko, and I don't mind making sure that she eats enough. [end edit]

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

The Enigmas are a new morph and I think we all just need to stay positive about them and work through whatever issues some of them may have.

Well said.

 

[Purpleskyes]

We were at a uk show last weekend. While there of course there were Enigmas for sale I myself bought one I however bought it from a good breeder who doesnt sell enigmas until they are 4-5months incase of issuses. On another table however there was a red eyed enigma with severe issues, it was consistly walking in circles and doing nothing else and when my boyfriend picked up the tub to look at it the poor thing fell over. It made me angry that this guy had bought it to a show to sell to someone who might not know they can have problems and didnt mention the problems, a person might have bought this to breed. I did mention this very loudly right beside the guy but he just ignored me. I have also seen a few videos on youtube of the enigmas with the circling problems.

 

[PSGeckos]

We were at a uk show last weekend. While there of course there were Enigmas for sale I myself bought one I however bought it from a good breeder who doesnt sell enigmas until they are 4-5months incase of issuses. On another table however there was a red eyed enigma with severe issues, it was consistly walking in circles and doing nothing else and when my boyfriend picked up the tub to look at it the poor thing fell over. It made me angry that this guy had bought it to a show to sell to someone who might not know they can have problems and didnt mention the problems, a person might have bought this to breed. I did mention this very loudly right beside the guy but he just ignored me. I have also seen a few videos on youtube of the enigmas with the circling problems.

Hi Purpleskyes,
Was he the guy in the bottom left hand corner from the entrance? If so
I know exactly who you mean, and don't worry myself and Pete had a very harsh word with him! He did take it off the table and lets hope he listened to us!

 

[Purpleskyes]

Hi Purpleskyes,
Was he the guy in the bottom left hand corner from the entrance? If so
I know exactly who you mean, and don't worry myself and Pete had a very harsh word with him! He did take it off the table and lets hope he listened to us!

Yip sarah that was the guy glad you had a harsh word I was ready for killing the OH as he bought two snakes off him.

 

[Guido]

Hey,

i will get a Male and a Female Enigma this weekend and i am new with the Enigma morph so how is it with breeding two Enigmas together ?
Will every Baby have this problems like the shaking and making this cycles all the time ?
I sure heared about the problems the last year but i was not sure to breed no 2 Enigmas together !
Maybe someone can bring light in the dark about that !
I don´t want to produce poor sad baby´s !

greetings
Guido

 

[lytlesnake]

I think it would be best to outcross them. Not only will you be creating something different and more beautiful, but it's likely that it will strengthen the line.

 

[your gecko guy]

Mine does the star gazing thing .

 

[MeiK]

I wouldn't say "defective" or even "unhealthy" unless it's constantly circling, affecting it's eating/breeding habits, or other actual REAL concern. I don't think those should be bred from...

A little head bobbing... Honestly - that couldn't possibly mean the animal is unhappy... Never mind unhealthy. A quick "trip" when startled? Come on. My girlfriend jumped out of the closet to scare me on Halloween and I fell over. I hope I still get a chance to breed someday lol.

We're learning about these now - they are a new morph. The kinks will be worked out so long as people responsibly selectively breed. :main_yes: I wouldn't worry unless it's causing a real problem.

 

[snared99]

MIKE ABSOLUELTY WELL SAID!!!

 

[paulnj]

:main_thumbsup:

 

[Malibu Barbie]

My girlfriend jumped out of the closet to scare me on Halloween and I fell over. I hope I still get a chance to breed someday

I really think we need to make a poll for that one also

 

[MeiK]

I really think we need to make a poll for that one also

lol ohhh boy.

 

[Chibii]

Lets say i am in herps for like 2/3 day's. I don't relay know the normal behavior of a gecko. But mine is just fine and being cute.

 

[RampantReptiles]

Im kind of disappointed in mine atm. I got one for $150 from a good breeder and shes supposedly a year old and no where near breeding weight. I have had her for more than a month. I have a bad feeling she isnt going to be breedable and that I kinda got screwed. I suppose I should have asked if she was going to get big enough to breed but honestly a good breeder should volunteer that kind of information. Yeah I guess it was mostly my own fault
She does have a little bit of woobliness(yeah I made up a word ) thats hardly even noticeable.

 

[LG-Geckos]

I´m very pleased to say that no one of my Enigma has those Enigma abnormalities.
And I didn´t recognized any diffrents between breeding an Enigma to a non Enigma or breeding and Enigma to an Enigma. They´re all very healthy and the Enigma morph is just amazing

 

[Baoh]

Im kind of disappointed in mine atm. I got one for $150 from a good breeder and shes supposedly a year old and no where near breeding weight. I have had her for more than a month. I have a bad feeling she isnt going to be breedable and that I kinda got screwed. I suppose I should have asked if she was going to get big enough to breed but honestly a good breeder should volunteer that kind of information. Yeah I guess it was mostly my own fault
She does have a little bit of woobliness(yeah I made up a word ) thats hardly even noticeable.

How much does she weigh? The "standard" breeding weights thrown around have been creeping up higher and higher and then get repeated as if law. I judge by the overall proportion, weight, and age of the individual gecko. Some geckos are perfectly fine to breed at younger ages because their proportions and weights are good. Some are fine to breed at *somewhat* lower weights because they are old enough and have very good, robust proportions. IMO, too thin is too thin, though. Of course, some geckos just are not fit for breeding, although a problem dam could still be bred for the sake of improving a line. That is obviously more risk and the decision needs to be made carefully, however. For what might be a unique or precious trait, though, it can seem unavoidable.

Maybe the reported age is incorrect, too.