Golden Gate Geckos Slurry

[Dimidiata]

*face palms* I guess i had that coming, i greatly apologize, i ment no disrespect.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Geez, it it a full moon or something? *shakes head*

 

[Russ S]

Why does my statement need "toning down" when Laney says the same thing and you don't say anything about that? Talk about alienating. I don't think I said anything that hasn't been said already.

All I asked for was for some facts. Nothing more. If that's offensive, I'll apologize for me and for the others who asked for some facts as well. Feel free to delete my post like the other one that was deleted.

It was the way you stated it.
I'd really like to hear what they have to say on this.
Saying "Let's see some solid evidence, not just words." as opposed to "Let's see some evidence to support what you are saying." has a much harsher tone to it.
I apologize if you thought I was singling you out.

 

[Wild West Reptile]

Sometimes I type short for several reasons that I won't go into. I can see how statements can sound harsh because you don't hear voice tone. It's EVERYWHERE on this forum. No hard feelings, I just was hoping that you weren't singling me out. I honestly do want to hear some new evidence on this subject because I am all for anything new that helps rehabilitate geckos. That's what this is all about. But to tell someone that their slurry is not good for them, when it has been used countless times to bring geckos back from their deathbed is arrogant. This does not mean that there isn't another way to do it, but why dismiss what has been used successfully for so long as totally wrong? Again, and I'll state it another way.....lets see some evidence to support what she is stating. There, that's much nicer now, isn't it.

 

[lillith]

As far as I know, the main reason for including the milk thistle is as a prophylactic measure regarding threats to the liver from the high-protein/high-fat nature of the slurry. Which prevents it from causing the sorts of problems that chrisherp is talking about.

So, chrisherp, would you kindly provide us with your sources? Where did you learn this, from whom, and how long have you had herps? I have no way of knowing since you very recently joined the forum.

And actually, Marcia, it is a full moon later tonight.

 

[fl_orchidslave]

This is a wonderful thread, and we may be on the brink of earning something new. There's not a lot of monies to fund specific various gecko research projects that carry accreditation. Any scientific evidence regarding gecko care is important, and until anything new is proven, the older ways are all we have that we can depend on.

Some things I'd like to point out about a slurry ingredient- dehydration is addressed by the use of pedialyte. Any animal I have used this with has been dehydrated and not eating, and I was well aware of it. The geckos were also receiving daily soaks in warm water and I gently run wet fingertips around their little gecko lips to make sure they were drinking. I will NOT administer any oral medications to a gecko that has not been eating and drinking for 5 consecutive days.

 

[Dimidiata]

I will NOT administer any oral medications to a gecko that has not been eating and drinking for 5 consecutive days.

This i agree with. In the case of reptiles we were told in class this piece of information. We were discussing the types and reasons for dehydration and were told the reptiles were better soaked first THEN medicated or Iv'd.

 

[gecko4245]

Sometimes I type short for several reasons that I won't go into. I can see how statements can sound harsh because you don't hear voice tone. It's EVERYWHERE on this forum. No hard feelings, I just was hoping that you weren't singling me out. I honestly do want to hear some new evidence on this subject because I am all for anything new that helps rehabilitate geckos. That's what this is all about. But to tell someone that their slurry is not good for them, when it has been used countless times to bring geckos back from their deathbed is arrogant. This does not mean that there isn't another way to do it, but why dismiss what has been used successfully for so long as totally wrong? Again, and I'll state it another way.....lets see some evidence to support what she is stating. There, that's much nicer now, isn't it.

That is so true "statements can sound harsh because you don't hear voice tone". I have that problem that I am not good at using those words to make it sound softer I guess. I noticed alot of times people take things the wrong way when I type something.
I read my other email and there is more than one missing post christine posted and I think that it was misunderstood. I am not defending chris, I am defending the soup because in one of the missing post it says she only had a concern about the mealworms being added. So it was not good that at least that post was deleted because then people think that something is wrong with the soup and at least I don't think that was the case.

 

[gecko4245]

This is a wonderful thread, and we may be on the brink of earning something new. There's not a lot of monies to fund specific various gecko research projects that carry accreditation. Any scientific evidence regarding gecko care is important, and until anything new is proven, the older ways are all we have that we can depend on.

Some things I'd like to point out about a slurry ingredient- dehydration is addressed by the use of pedialyte. Any animal I have used this with has been dehydrated and not eating, and I was well aware of it. The geckos were also receiving daily soaks in warm water and I gently run wet fingertips around their little gecko lips to make sure they were drinking. I will NOT administer any oral medications to a gecko that has not been eating and drinking for 5 consecutive days.

Very good you pointed that out. That was one of the things I had questioned.
In the missing post she wrote: water/protein ratio
So that was why I had asked because everytime I had to give the mazuri or oxbow it was measured. Like a certain amount of water to a certain amount of food. So as far as I know the amount is important to make sure there is enough fluid to digest the protein.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I read my other email and there is more than one missing post christine posted and I think that it was misunderstood. I am not defending chris, I am defending the soup because in one of the missing post it says she only had a concern about the mealworms being added. So it was not good that at least that post was deleted because then people think that something is wrong with the soup and at least I don't think that was the case.

I agree that chrisherp's initial response to the questions initiated on the other thread perhaps should have been included in the transfer of posts to this thread and not deleted. In a nutshell, she stated that she is a part-time student with access to books, and is associated with lots of vets with 'new' and 'better' methods for treating anorexic geckos than 'old vets'. She did not, however, answer my question regarding what would be 'new' and 'better'. I challenged her by wondering who are the ones who wrote those books and teach the courses to the vets that are 'new' and 'better'.

As far as this thread is concerned, I started it along with a poll to get feedback from those who have used the slurry (let's quit calling it soup, OK?). Over the years since I first started recommending this food and published the recipe, I have had literally hundreds of emails and messages from people, even internationally, who have used it and successfully were able to rehabilitate geckos that would have died otherwise while being treated for parasitic and/or bacterial infections by a vet.

Of course, I welcome well-thought out and researched discussion... not arrogant and combative squabbling.

 

[grboxa]

extremely pathetic her comment was deleted.:main_no:

 

[gecko4245]

This i agree with. In the case of reptiles we were told in class this piece of information. We were discussing the types and reasons for dehydration and were told the reptiles were better soaked first THEN medicated or Iv'd.

True, no dehydrated reptile should be given medicines right away. It is not easy when you try to do things yourself without a vet. It depends on how dehydrated the reptile is. In at home we can only guess. 5 years ago I was given a bearded dragon that was in really poor shape. The soaks were not enough. They only take in very little water thru there behind. The dehydration was to severe and I had to leave him in the hospital overnight to get IV fluids anyway. It was too late he died a few hours later.

 

[gecko4245]

slurry. I think I got that word soup from the top of the forum. yep the missing post made things sound worst than it was.

 

[Russ S]

extremely pathetic her comment was deleted.:main_no:

Thanks for pointing this out in such a positive manner.
I did not intentionally leave it out, bit must have forgot to check the box while doing the transfer.
I will transfer that post to this thread when I get home and can use my computer. It is too hard to do from my phone.

 

[snared99]

I personally think the slurry can be a good tool if used correctly, but the important word is correctly. It would be very different if this was a manufactured product and the ingredients were identical almost every time. The issue is when people mix the slurry and and may not be what the originator intended.
I think it would also be a great product to do a food trial on and test how effective it is. Same type of trials pet food go through, that test the stool of the animal it is on to see how much of the product is used and if the product can be made better.

Like I stated I think it is a good product, I have never personally used it, but have heard stories where it has worked great and some that it has not. But there are also alot of factors that can go wrong in the stories where it didnt work. Like the mixture being correct or the difference between handfeeding the formula versus force feeding(I dont think alot of new hobbiest get the difference alot of times). I think hand feeding is great if the gecko will take it willingly, but force feeding can possibly worsen the issue.

 

[grboxa]

Thanks for pointing this out in such a positive manner.
I did not intentionally leave it out, bit must have forgot to check the box while doing the transfer.
I will transfer that post to this thread when I get home and can use my computer. It is too hard to do from my phone.

oh, in that case, I got it right here! :main_thumbsup:.

This was the...."lost comment" from chrisherp


Amazing how defensive some people can become on this forum when someone new has information. It becomes a defensive interrogation. This is why even when I had more time I kept my distance. I had good intentions with updated information which I have been gathering from my mentors. I wanted to help prevent the calcium overdose which happened to my gecko from happening to someone else. I was working on a full detailed health sheet and I wanted it to be a pleasant surprise but I am totally discouraged.

Technology has evolved and newer information has become available in large university colleges.
The outdated information that continues to be given to new members is totally disappointing. There are very few people there that are well aware of the best care but I have seen how they try and it becomes a war.
People fail to see reality that has caused these leopard geckos to live short lives. Why is it so hard to except that your methods are failing. Do you really believe 10 years is old for a leopard gecko?

Yes, photoperiod plays a part in extending their lives.
Yes, variety is important.
Yes, fattening food will shorten their life span.
Yes, over supplementing happens all the time. I have seen it personally. This is what gave me the drive to look further instead of taking advice from a forum filled with old and incorrect information.

I have said all I have to say and hope that at least a few will be smart enough to not follow the terrible trend that is leading to premature deaths in leopard geckos.

No I am not a troll. No I am not bored. I am an educated person who wanted to contribute information to help others.

Wish you all the best!

 

[fl_orchidslave]

Another thing to consider is knowing exactly what is wrong with the gecko. Without a solid diagnosis from a qualified herp vet, a sick gecko may or may not respond to the slurry. Or may do okay for a week or so, then die. Even vets will tell you they can't save them all. Crypto could be involved. There are so many variables to take into consideration. My understanding of the recipe is that it was developed as nutritional support for convalescing geckos under vets' care, and not intended for long term use.

Marcia, I love this recipe and am thankful you have shared it with us. My vet approves (and he's young enough to be my son) and has seen first hand a gecko he thought would die, that I had taken in, with a life threatening hookworm load.

 

[lillith]

oh, in that case, I got it right here! :main_thumbsup:.

This was the...."lost comment" from chrisherp


Amazing how defensive some people can become on this forum when someone new has information. It becomes a defensive interrogation. This is why even when I had more time I kept my distance. I had good intentions with updated information which I have been gathering from my mentors. I wanted to help prevent the calcium overdose which happened to my gecko from happening to someone else. I was working on a full detailed health sheet and I wanted it to be a pleasant surprise but I am totally discouraged.

Technology has evolved and newer information has become available in large university colleges.
The outdated information that continues to be given to new members is totally disappointing. There are very few people there that are well aware of the best care but I have seen how they try and it becomes a war.
People fail to see reality that has caused these leopard geckos to live short lives. Why is it so hard to except that your methods are failing. Do you really believe 10 years is old for a leopard gecko?

Yes, photoperiod plays a part in extending their lives.
Yes, variety is important.
Yes, fattening food will shorten their life span.
Yes, over supplementing happens all the time. I have seen it personally. This is what gave me the drive to look further instead of taking advice from a forum filled with old and incorrect information.

I have said all I have to say and hope that at least a few will be smart enough to not follow the terrible trend that is leading to premature deaths in leopard geckos.

No I am not a troll. No I am not bored. I am an educated person who wanted to contribute information to help others.

Wish you all the best!

Thank You, George!
So, now that you have our attention, chrisherp, what is it you have learned that is new and different and what are your sources? It helps if you present facts, experiments, results, citations, publications, etc.
Stick with SCIENCE! (sorry, I got excited, I love science).

Personally, I am most insatiably (obnoxiously) curious and would like to hear what you have learned. I seek to constantly refine my knowledge, framed piece of paper or not to substantiate it. There are a lot of educated folks here, and they don't always speak up over loudmouths.

I'm a bit of both: somewhat well-read, and somewhat loudmouthed.

I really want to hear what you have to say?
Please tell us... don't disappear, now!
Please name the colleges/universities you alluded to, and please name what is causing the "terrible trend" you are alluding to (what terrible trend?). You have a message, but you are not being clear. By the way, my oldest gecko is 11 years old this winter, showing no signs of going kaput anytime soon. Not that it's pertinent, but I've managed to keep him alive longer than your hypothetical blanket statement. And I didn't know better at first. When I got better information, things changed.


p.s. I do have to say I think it is a little unfair to characterize an entire forum as "full of old and incorrect information" without getting to know us, first. Geckokeeping has evolved significantly from what it was in the 1990s. Good keepers will update their knowledge and adjust their husbandry accordingly. I don't like being lumped in and judged as "full of old and incorrect information." That's not fair, and shows bias.
__________________

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

My understanding of the recipe is that it was developed as nutritional support for convalescing geckos under vets' care, and not intended for long term use.

ABSOLUTELY!!! It is also important when administering it to allow the gecko to 'self-feed' by licking it, and NOT forcing it on them.

My vet approves (and he's young enough to be my son) and has seen first hand a gecko he thought would die, that I had taken in, with a life threatening hookworm load.

Perfect example of how the slurry should be used appropriately.

 

[gecko4245]

I don't mean to sound like a genious because I know I am not. But these things I mentioned in the past and everytime I tried to tell someone, someone else would post against me

Yes, photoperiod plays a part in extending their lives.
Yes, variety is important.
Yes, fattening food will shorten their life span.