hobby endangered

[Dan K.]

It's because the people making this ban don't know the differance between a gecko and a kamodo dragon! I think they should talk to some people that know something about herps before they just make an ingnoant deccision and just BAN ALL NON-NATIVE SPECIES!!!!!!! harmless or not.

 

[Khrysty]

It's because the people making this ban don't know the differance between a gecko and a kamodo dragon! I think they should talk to some people that know something about herps before they just make an ingnoant deccision and just BAN ALL NON-NATIVE SPECIES!!!!!!! harmless or not.

:main_yes:

 

[Sidviciouser]

Exactly my point! My leos could never even survive if they escaped my home. The temps and food availability are so drastic from what they need...how can they be lumped in with the animals that are, at best, pests, and at worst, violent killers? It just doesn't make sense..

If they're going to have this law, they NEED to amend it.

This fight is for all of us, big python keepers and leopard gecko breeders alike. The big python, ball python and boa keepers may be the biggest reason we get to keep leopard geckos (PIJAC & USARK). What you need to realize is that these laws have little to do with the environment or human safety. If they did then pit bulls would be illegal everywhere, and so would horses (hundreds of deaths). Look up the source of all these bills and you will find the "humane society", "PETA" and others like them behind the bills. There goal is to have all pets (even cats and dogs eventually) banned. They believe it's morally wrong for you to keep a "pet" of any kind. To them its degrading and unfair to the animal. If you support any of these causes, you need to look into their involvement in these kinds of bills. They will start with the big pythons and keep moving forward one species at a time.

Canada just passed a very similar ban. You can't even breed ball pythons up there now.

 

[Foreverandever]

There goal is to have all pets (even cats and dogs eventually) banned. They believe it's morally wrong for you to keep a "pet" of any kind. To them its degrading and unfair to the animal. If you support any of these causes, you need to look into their involvement in these kinds of bills. They will start with the big pythons and keep moving forward one species at a time.
.

So what is their plan for all these animals after we cant keep them? Are they going to kill them? Or let them all turn wild and roam around freely? :main_rolleyes:

 

[Khrysty]

This fight is for all of us, big python keepers and leopard gecko breeders alike. The big python, ball python and boa keepers may be the biggest reason we get to keep leopard geckos (PIJAC & USARK). What you need to realize is that these laws have little to do with the environment or human safety. If they did then pit bulls would be illegal everywhere, and so would horses (hundreds of deaths). Look up the source of all these bills and you will find the "humane society", "PETA" and others like them behind the bills. There goal is to have all pets (even cats and dogs eventually) banned. They believe it's morally wrong for you to keep a "pet" of any kind. To them its degrading and unfair to the animal. If you support any of these causes, you need to look into their involvement in these kinds of bills. They will start with the big pythons and keep moving forward one species at a time.

Canada just passed a very similar ban. You can't even breed ball pythons up there now.

Ridiculous. Sometimes PETA takes things a little too far :main_rolleyes:

 

[Foreverandever]

Ridiculous. Sometimes PETA takes things a little too far :main_rolleyes:

Thank you :main_yes:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I would like to urge ALL of us to write our State Representatives ASAP. If you don't know how to word a letter or email, here is a copy of the one I wrote my Congresswoman:

Dear Congresswoman Capps,

This correspondence is in regard to the Non-native Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act H.R.669. As a long-term, responsible and ethical professional gecko breeder, I urge you to oppose this upcoming legislation. I believe it is too broad and vague, and although I agree that there are some non-native species that are creating havoc on some of our Country's ecosystems, surely ALL non-native species are not the problem.

In addition, would cause me to lose my business in this current sinking economy. It would rob me and the thousands of others of the joy in keeping and working with these beautiful, gentle creatures as pets.

I would like to invite you to visit two websites which are dedicated to the responsible care and keeping of geckos species, and hopefully you can have a more informed opinion on how H.R. 669 would impact the lives of literally thousands of people.

The first website is: http://www.geckoforums.net
This is a world-wide forum based information portal dedicated to the responsible keeping and breeding of geckos.

The second website is: http://www.goldengategeckos.com
This is my personal business website which includes geckos I have available to sell, as well as comprehensive care information on the various gecko species I work with.

Again, I urge you to oppose H.R. 669 on April 23, 2009. The general public needs to be more educated and informed about the responsible, ethical care and keeping of non-native species... not more legislature controlling our lives and dictating what species of pets we keep.

Thank you for your time and consideration in reading this correspondence.

Respectfully,
Rev. Marcia McGuiness
Golden Gate Geckos

 

[MagPie]

From my understanding this bill is not just reptiles, but ALL non native animals (birds, rodents, fish except for goldfish, etc.) except for the safe animals like cats, dogs, horses, and a few others. I have my doubts that this'll pass if it does in fact cover all those animals not just reptiles. This bill, or whatever it is, would screw over a lot of people and businesses as well, not to mention they could destroy these animals (how is that humane?).

This whole thing is very big brother-ish. And really they are focusing on something like this, without doing any real research, when there are bigger issues they should be fixing.

 

[Nigel4less]

The Thing people need to realize is that these people don't just want us to keep Reptiles, they don't want us to keep any Animals. PETA, HSUS and these other extremist organizations want nothing other then to see the Pet Trade End! The thing is if we loose Big Pythons today, tomorrow its your Monitors, and eventually the list will dwindle down to Goldfish and Leopard Geckos. To these politicians Guinea Pigs for God's sake are as dangerous as a Gaboon Viper. We need to Educate these people as much as possible, and if we are lucky maybe we`ll stand a chance.

My 2 cents.

Edit: I also want to encourage you guys to read this article Kathy Love(a Prominent Cornsnake breeder) wrote.

http://cornutopia.com/Corn Utopia on the Web/- LURKING ENEMY Cornutopia corn snakes cornsnakes.htm

 

[Khrysty]

From my understanding this bill is not just reptiles, but ALL non native animals (birds, rodents, fish except for goldfish, etc.) except for the safe animals like cats, dogs, horses, and a few others. I have my doubts that this'll pass if it does in fact cover all those animals not just reptiles. This bill, or whatever it is, would screw over a lot of people and businesses as well, not to mention they could destroy these animals (how is that humane?).

This whole thing is very big brother-ish. And really they are focusing on something like this, without doing any real research, when there are bigger issues they should be fixing.

you hit it right on the nose. And you're right..it is NOT just reptiles, either. They've got those really brutal and violent imported animals...like bunnies and gerbils...on there too

 

[snowgyre]

Well, I'm probably going to get shot again for saying all of this (I play devil's advocate on here a lot it seems), but keep in mind that I'm a PhD student in wildlife biology and an avid reptile keeper/breeder, so I often find myself in the gray zone in these issues.

Seems to me that this isn't necessarily a bad thing. Right now the government has been reactionary in its approach to invasive species, not preventative. This is expensive and often by the time a problem is discovered it's already too late. Although I think the risk with reptiles is minimal except in localized areas (including any tropical to subtropical region), I think this legislation is excellent news when it comes to the horticultural trade.

Think about it. For those of you who live in the Southeastern US, how many of us struggle with Chinese privet, Japanese honeysuckle, kudzu, wisteria, and autumn olive, just to name a few? These plants were first introduced to the US through the horticultural trade, used in landscaping, and then got out of control because no thought was given to what kind of impact they would have on our natural communities. There are literally thousands of species that cost us billions of dollars a year in control and eradication efforts. For more information on invasive plants, you can go HERE.

There are also many examples of invasive animals that are causing tremendous problems. The poisonous lionfish was imported for the aquarium trade has established itself in the subtropical reefs surrounding Florida and is quite literally eating native fish to local extinction. Then there's the infamous burmese python introductions in the everglades of Florida. Burmese pythons have recently been found on Key Largo, and snakes that have been discovered and killed were found to have the highly endangered Key Largo Woodrat in their guts.

I think Congress does have common sense, and I believe that the US Fish and Wildlife Service, for all the bad rap it gets with the reptile hobby, really is trying its best under very depressing circumstances to protect the wildlife and habitats we have here in the United States. Does the bill have problems? Sure it does. But whenever people on this forum (and elsewhere) hear of new legislation it's like all reason goes out of the window and panic mode sets in. There is no reason to panic. There is reason to get involved though, so I encourage all of you to do your homework, understand that the government is doing its best to protect our native plants and animals, and that being proactive in recognizing which species may or may not be harmful if introduced to the US is far better than getting something here only to realize that it suddenly has become a massive problem that will take years and billions of dollars to fix.

So please be thoughtful in your responses. Understand that invasive species cost us billions of dollars a year, and that the US Gov really does have their hearts in the right place. It's up to us as knowledgeable hobbyists to inform Congress of the potential versus perceived risks of various species. Congressmen and women don't keep these animals for pets, so their understanding is limited. The US FWS always approaches from the viewpoint that nonnative plants are bad. This is their job, since they're responsible for protecting native communities for generations to come. Creating legislation is a dynamic process and relies heavily upon user inputs. So... go input, people!

Whew, long essay. I apologize for boring you out of your minds. ;-)

 

[DarthGekko]

Thanks Marcia. I just wrote Congresswoman Shelley Berkley of Nevada. My mother is also meeting with her in person this Saturday and will be discussing this matter as well as others.

 

[Khrysty]

Be that as it may, there are certain non-native species that pose NO threat to the environment, the animal kingdom, or their human caretakers. The only issue I have with this bill is, as you've mentioned, it's too broad and the men and women in charge of passing/veto-ing it have no experience with the animals they're considering banning.

 

[snowgyre]

Does anybody know if there's actually a segment in there that talks about banning the import of nonnative plants? Man, that would make my day. Invasive plants are a fricken HUGE problem, brought in for their looks with no real thought about what kind of damage they can do once released into a native system. I think invasive plants are far more damaging than invasive animals.

I just hate privet. Somebody, give me a chainsaw and some Roundup, please?

 

[Khrysty]

Does anybody know if there's actually a segment in there that talks about banning the import of nonnative plants? Man, that would make my day. Invasive plants are a fricken HUGE problem, brought in for their looks with no real thought about what kind of damage they can do once released into a native system. I think invasive plants are far more damaging than invasive animals.

I just hate privet. Somebody, give me a chainsaw and some Roundup, please?

Nope, this bill is solely for the purpose of getting rid of/halting importation and breeding of non-native animals.

An non-native plant bill would be more graciously received.

 

[snowgyre]

Oh, with that I absolutely agree. I think an overarching ban is taking the easy way out, for sure, although I can appreciate the daunting task of making a list of every single species that already exists within or has been imported to the US and decide if it could possibly become a problem. Trust me when I say that it's extremely difficult.

Still, I think a lot of people are worried about mass euthanasia if this bill gets passed? C'mon people, get real. Even Congress isn't dumb enough to think that would fly. Everyone who currently has pets would get grandfathered in, although restrictions on breeding would probably occur. New York banned all big boas (anacondas, really, Boa constrictors are still allowed) and pythons (burmese, reticulated, etc.) a few years ago, but people who owned them at the time could still own them, they just weren't allowed to breed them, bring them into the state, or buy/sell them anymore. Still, I don't think the bill will pass as it is.

 

[DarthGekko]

Nigel,

Thanks for the link to that article. I had no idea!! I watched a show about PETA on Penn and Teller last year. I saw first hand how they bought refrigerators to store dead bodies of the 80% of the animals they collected and destroyed! Thanks again for the info....

 

[JordanAng420]

I understand where you're coming from Vanessa, and I do agree that the idea is to protect our native plants and animals...living in S. Florida we CONSTANTLY see species of animals that are not originally native to Florida, or the US.

But there are people who literally make a living caring for, helping, and sometimes breeding these animals that are potentially being "banned." If this did pass, not only would my (and many others') hobbies be destroyed, but my job would PERMANENTLY be destroyed as well, as I work solely with exotics, 4 years of schooling would be worthless, and i'd have to really figure something out.

I think you're totally right when you say it's up to us to educate the people that have the power over this bill...

 

[snowgyre]

Man, that's a bummer about no plants being discussed. Maybe they're saving it for another bill? Perhaps that's a 'concession' everybody could make in their letters to Congress? Say that, hey, we understand that some reptile and amphibian species are a problem to native communities, but invasive plants often have more broad scale, continental wide negative effects (not just in subtropical and tropical communities) than most invasive animal species? It's an idea anyway.

EDIT: Marcia, I finally read your letter. I think it's excellent, and I hope others use your template. Thanks for posting it!

 

[Barbel]

My boyfriend wrote to our representative yesterday. From our understanding, this whole thing started because of a non-native snake that unknowingly boarded a plane, got off in Guam and then reproduced. Now, it's eating all their birds. Now from that viewpoint, I understand. A non native species should not be allowed to eat an entire native species, it completely messes up the ecosystem.
That being said, yes they definitely need to do more research and banning animals is not the answer to this problem. Banning animals will put MILLIONS of people in financial crisis and destroy our already suffering economy.
There is a problem with big constrictors in the everglades as well as iguanas. Banning them is not the answer either, because they will start with one and then move to the next until all animals are banned. With bigger snakes, I think they need to make a law requiring a microchip so that people will be less likely to release them when they get to big to care for. I know breeders don't do this, but there are a lot of idiots that do. If they are microchiped the animals can be traced back to the person who let it go and that one person can be penalized, not the hobbyists as a whole.
Most reptiles would not survive in the majority of the United States, but this law includes dogs and cats, which live on the streets. That is why it is SO IMPORTANT that people spay and neuter their dogs and cats. The dog and cat population is overflowing shelters and all these over breeders and "accident" litters are the cause of this. That is probably why they are included in this as well, other than the fact that PETA is crazy!
I do think that pets are too accessible to people and maybe if they made it more difficult for irresponsible people to obtain pets, that might help as well.
I hate this law. It is impractical and punishes good, responsible people. It definitely needs to be revised, BIG TIME!

As a side note: to the person who said something like if this law was really about human safety, then pit bulls would be banned everywhere. UGH! Pit bulls are not anymore dangerous or aggressive than any other type of dog. They are just dogs that want and need to be loved. Labs and beagles are statistically more aggressive, but no one wants to ban them. The people who train them to act negatively should be on death row, not the dogs. Banning pit bulls only hurts the responsible owners.