I need to get this off my chest

[KelliH]

Wow.....!!!!!

Out of curiosity, why is it that the USA is fighting a war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm still having a problem relating Iraq to 911. Is it blind faith that George says so, so it must be, although none of the WMD he said were there could be found.

Is it that the Al-qaeda live in Iraq?

What about the 1000's of innocent Iraqi's that have been killed. I would hazard a guess that the innocent Iraqi casualties far outnumber the US casualties. Is it possible that George fed the nation a pile of propoganda in order to go back and finish off Sadam.

I am not trying to belittle what happened but only trying to sort out in my mind the justification for invading Iraq. As I said, I fail to make the connection.

We are fighting Islamic fascists/extremists that want all of us dead. Remember those videos of the Americans getting their heads sawed off with knives? Those people would have no problem sawing your head off, or mine, or our children's heads. They hate us. I feel that we need to kill them before they kill us first.

Of course it is horrible that innocent civilians die in war, but that is war. That is what happens. Between 40 and 60 MILLION people died in World War 2, and more than 20 million of them were civilians. War is a terrible thing, but I wonder what would have ended up happening had we not defeated Germany in that war? It is scary to think about indeed.

 

[gixxer3420]

What about all the iraqi civilians that Saddam killed daily, hmm can't even inagine the number but I know this it is much higher than the civilians that have died in the war to free them. I better stop right here before I get my self in trouble, this is a touchy subject for me.

 

[NaughtyDawg]

We are fighting Islamic fascists/extremists that want all of us dead. Remember those videos of the Americans getting their heads sawed off with knives? Those people would have no problem sawing your head off, or mine, or our children's heads. They hate us. I feel that we need to kill them before they kill us first.

Of course it is horrible that innocent civilians die in war, but that is war. That is what happens. Between 40 and 60 MILLION people died in World War 2, and more than 20 million of them were civilians. War is a terrible thing, but I wonder what would have ended up happening had we not defeated Germany in that war? It is scary to think about indeed.

Still I can't make the connection to Iraq. If this is the rational why not attack ALL Islam nations. More than just the people in Iraq hate Americans.

 

[NaughtyDawg]

What about all the iraqi civilians that Saddam killed daily, hmm can't even inagine the number but I know this it is much higher than the civilians that have died in the war to free them. I better stop right here before I get my self in trouble, this is a touchy subject for me.

There are many countries in the world that treat their people badly.


Why not go after China as well, there are many more human rights issues there than Iraq.

Sadam is gone, leave them alone now. Are the American casualties and tax money being spent worth it when the Americans are not even wanted there?

 

[Arconna]

There's a radio show that I listen to during the week. They have a running joke about the main guy (Rob) running for president and that one of his slogans is "The world is going to hell in a handbasket on a rocketship"...

From the shootings at schools and at the Amish school too, to all the horrors going on around the world it amazes me that we have survived as long as we have as a species. I just don't understand how people can act the way they do in society. Where does shooting someone over something as stupid as something he/she said get you? Nothing good comes from it. A person is dead or severely injured and you're on your way to prison. I don't understand gang violence or domestic violence either. I don't understand how we as a people can hate one another so much. I'm not a hippy or anything like that, but for the love of god can we not all as a world of humans sit down and go "you know, we've been pretty rotten to one another...let's hug instead".

Who's with me to have the worlds largest group hug?

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

nastynotch, you're young, dumb, and full of pride.

Don't call someone dumb because they do not agree with your views! Yes he is young, glad you noticed that, but atleast SOMEONE is full of pride! I personally agree with MOST of the people on here in that I would much rather fight a war over there, wherever the terrorists are, terrorists camps are, and wherever the countries are that support the extremists who pull off such acts as Sept 11th. I want to live in a country who doesn't sit around on there thumbs and wait for the next plane to fly into a building then slap them on the hand (oh sorry, put them in timeout!) and wait for them to do it again. As for the innocent civilians dying in the war (I feel for each and EVERY one of them and there families) but have you forgotten about all the INNOCENT AMERICAN CIVILIANS in the World Trade Center towers, the Pentagon (you probably dont think they are innocent, they are the EVIL ONES), and the flight that went down in Pennsylvania due to the heroic act of a few. Yes many innocent people have died in Iraq, but do we just let these terrorists kill our innocent civilians (whatever their reason maybe) just so we don't accidently kill any of there innocent civilians?? I think not!!

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

Are the American casualties and tax money being spent worth it when the Americans are not even wanted there?

Where is the poll taken of the Iraqi people stating they would not like us there any longer? As far as I know, and until I see that poll, the only people complaining about us being there are a few in our own country and other countries who will probably benefit in some shape or form from us bowing out and letting them win!

 

[NaughtyDawg]

There's a radio show that I listen to during the week. They have a running joke about the main guy (Rob) running for president and that one of his slogans is "The world is going to hell in a handbasket on a rocketship"...

From the shootings at schools and at the Amish school too, to all the horrors going on around the world it amazes me that we have survived as long as we have as a species. I just don't understand how people can act the way they do in society. Where does shooting someone over something as stupid as something he/she said get you? Nothing good comes from it. A person is dead or severely injured and you're on your way to prison. I don't understand gang violence or domestic violence either. I don't understand how we as a people can hate one another so much. I'm not a hippy or anything like that, but for the love of god can we not all as a world of humans sit down and go "you know, we've been pretty rotten to one another...let's hug instead".

Who's with me to have the worlds largest group hug?

Well said......................

 

[NaughtyDawg]

Where is the poll taken of the Iraqi people stating they would not like us there any longer? As far as I know, and until I see that poll, the only people complaining about us being there are a few in our own country and other countries who will probably benefit in some shape or form from us bowing out and letting them win!

Maybe your sons, daughters friends relatives or whoever returning home in box might e a good indication.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

Maybe our sons, daughters, friends and relatives who were put into boxes on Sept. 11th are a good indication that we might need to be over there. The soldiers who gives their lives aren't brought back home because they were killed by the innocent civilians who we are there to liberate they were killed by the extremist who want us dead, those are the people who want us out of there, is that why we should leave?? And if we did leave because of them, what does that say to our family and friends killed by them, and the soldiers who died for us? Thats not something I would do, and I don't see how anyone else could either.


P.S. But I do agree with the "group hug", if only the world worked that way, it would be a much better place.

 

[Arconna]

Group hugs are possible, it just takes people a moment to stop thinking about themselves long enough to get off their lazy arses and hug someone.

I've got two things I am going to say here . One is a story that goes along with what the post originally was about, and the other is just my thoughts on the whole war thingy cause I just have to say it. I'll start with the war part because yeah, I dunno, just cause.

K. Sept. 11th I completely and totally agree deserved retaliation. I don't like war, and if it can be avoided I would hope we do so, but when your nation has basically been Pearl Harbored...again I might add...you have no choice but to do something about it. We hit Afghanistan which had obvious connections with the people we believe were responsible for the deaths of 3,000 or so Americans and the destruction of two memorable buildings in one of the greatest cities in the world. But, then we hit Iraq under the impression that there was a connection. But even our president in a more recent press conference when asked what Iraq had to do with 9/11 said "Nothing." Look, I don't like Saddam and yes he was a wretched and evil person who should have been removed, but the fact of the matter is, that wasn't why we as a society said "hell yeah, let's kick their arses". We went in thinking a bunch of different things that never stayed the same. One minute it's the connection to 9/11, then the next it's WMD's, then it's Saddam is a bad guy, to what? Iraq is just a war we didn't need to get involved in (though I really doubt that the U.N. would have done anything if we had left it to them even though that is supposed to be their job...just as they have mucked up the whole North Korea thing and a dozen other issues across the world over and over...failed organization that will continue to fail unless someone kicks all those idiots in the head and says "hey, stop being idiots").
You also have to understand something. When you tell people that we are liberating you that does not in any way sound like freedom, which is what we have been saying we are giving people. People don't want to be liberated, they want to be helped. Liberation means people die, people get hurt, and freedoms are lost. You also have to understand that we are pushing our way into the heart of a very proud and ancient people who have existed as they have for so many thousands of years. We cannot comprehend how deeply rooted they are in their culture and when we come along and try to Americanize things that doesn't bode well. Yes, there are happy people, afterall we have brought jobs, new homes, etc. over there. We're helping places like Iraq turn around to be what we would consider a more productive society, but in the process we are pushing out many people who do not want us there. Those are the people who are fighting against us. Some are terrorists, but there are also those that feel like they are being attacked by an enemy. That is how we would feel if someone came to 'liberate' us from our government.
Now, before I get called an anti-patriot or terrorist or whatever horrible names those of us who don't agree with the War in Iraq get these days, I am not any such thing. I support the troops 150%. I hate seeing them come home in coffins or bags or hearing the numbers soar on who has died. The same goes for the innocents caught in cross-fire or accidentally bombed. I always will support our troops because it is they who will defend us when some enemy tries to take away what little freedom we have left. They are doing what they are told, fighting for their country regardless of whether this war in Iraq is right or not. I respect that. I respect their courage and continued servitude to this nation that I love so very much. I have friends who have gone over there and I hate to think that one of them would be killed or disabled. I don't know what it must be like to lose a loved one over there and that is a terrible sacrifice someone has to make no matter the cause.

Okay, I ranted way too much on that whole subject and I'm sure I lost my point somewhere in there...sorry lol.

Now, for the more related subject matter.
I was at a local restaurant the other night with my girlfriend. We were minding our own business but this guy behind use kept interrupting and talking during our conversation. We sort of ignored it since it wasn't that big a deal. Well, I've been going to this place for 2 years now and have a good friendship with a guy who has been serving us. So he comes and sits down with us and this guy starts getting very rude. And then he flicks money at us and claims he was trying to leave a tip for the waitress, which is a load of bull. But we ignore it, mind our own business because we don't want any trouble. He gets even more rude at that point and finally Dan, the server, (who was off work, which is why he sat with us) asks the guy if there is a problem. Very politely. He explains we're just minding our own business, etc. Totally calm, no rudeness whatsoever. This guy gets all riled up over it and starts threatening Dan saying that they could go outside and 'settle it'. Dan, still calm just ignores it and continues, but the guy won't let it go so Dan gets the manager and both of them go over. Dan tries to reason with the guy trying to clarify that he didn't mean to offend the man if that is what had happened, etc. So this guy gets up and starts saying how they can just go outside and he would kick his arse, wrapping his arm around Dan's shoulder and such. Well finally the manager just says he has to leave and not to come back. The guy just throws a fit, curses a couple times, and then just storms out.
Now, we just assumed the guy was on something, but the fact of the matter was he was getting mad and trying to start a fight over literally nothing. We didn't even bug him or anything. Still, I was worried he might come back and try to start something when Dan left work because it seemed like the guy was angry enough to actually do it.
So needless to say I think that somewhere in the last generation or two all manners and love for your fellow man were thrown out the window along with good personal hygiene and self-respect...

This was way too long for my own good...sorry all lol. Don't get mad at me :S

 

[wilomn]

So needless to say I think that somewhere in the last generation or two all manners and love for your fellow man were thrown out the window along with good personal hygiene and self-respect... :S

Hmmmm, I wonder if this may be due in part to the parenting we've heard of right here.......and if so, that is also our future as some will do unto theirs as was done unto them.... continueing a seemingly endless chain....what a shame.

 

[Arconna]

Oh, I always blame parenting for the problems in the world caused by seemingly sane people. Now, insane people is a completely different thing. Parents can't really control what a person does when they go insane.

This is also part of the reason why I do not want to have children. I don't know how I could bring a child into this world, raise them the way children should be raised, and then have to watch them struggle in a world that hates everything...but I guess that's part of the struggle of being a parent.
I also question my ability to raise a child too though. Another part of why I don't want to have kids. I don't think people should have kids if they are incapable of taking care of them properly. Too many children are born into families that give them no attention, don't raise them well, and simply turn out more people like themselves...

Oi, you all got me ranting today! LOL

 

[Perefalcon]

Wilomn, would you please just do us a favor.

Put your lip over your head and swallow.

All we ever see is you posting antagonistic negative post, I have yet to see any kind of positive comment from you on any thread on this forum. That kind of negativity is what I have been talking about in this thread, people say things just to get a rise out of people and things escalate and get out of hand. I did not post this for you to find out "which string" to pull next.

As for the issue about things that we've done to other nations, it's a debate that will never end. That's all there is to say, I hate the concept of war and how everything in the world is revolving around who can be more powerful. But that's how it is, that's how it always will be. There's no need to argue against human nature, it's not pretty and it sometimes seems that it's not right. But there's a reason we try to teach our children to tolerate and accept other cultures. So that they know better.

 

[PrototypeGeckos]

"(though I really doubt that the U.N. would have done anything if we had left it to them even though that is supposed to be their job...just as they have mucked up the whole North Korea thing and a dozen other issues across the world over and over...failed organization that will continue to fail unless someone kicks all those idiots in the head and says "hey, stop being idiots")."

We disagree on many things I see, but that is each our own opinion, but I agree with you 110% on the above quote, nothing gets done left to them.

 

[wilomn]

Wilomn, would you please just do us a favor.

Put your lip over your head and swallow.

All we ever see is you posting antagonistic negative post, I have yet to see any kind of positive comment from you on any thread on this forum. That kind of negativity is what I have been talking about in this thread, people say things just to get a rise out of people and things escalate and get out of hand. I did not post this for you to find out "which string" to pull next.

As for the issue about things that we've done to other nations, it's a debate that will never end. That's all there is to say, I hate the concept of war and how everything in the world is revolving around who can be more powerful. But that's how it is, that's how it always will be. There's no need to argue against human nature, it's not pretty and it sometimes seems that it's not right. But there's a reason we try to teach our children to tolerate and accept other cultures. So that they know better.

But the red one is so very pretty and I was going to yank it next.

As far as why you posted this, once you hit submit, it's sort of like an orphaned child, you can hope your best it goes a certain way, but you are no longer in control.

Also, I don't think I brought up any of the war stuff, I was quite content not talking about members whose parents abused them being more likely to in turn abuse their as yet unborn offspring.

And, if you look close enough, you just might, maybe, perhaps, find a thread or two where I'm a downright nice kind of guy.

Either way, this thread took a turn that I had nothing to do with, and which, while interesting, is not so interesting that I have even posted once to it, that I recall; being why are we "over there" and what are we doing there.

If you all recall, there was this election. There was this governor in fla. who was accused of cheating and lying to give his brother the presidency and, just prior to our declaring war, was quite a bit of publicity about this election not being fair. All that disappeared, hmmmmm fancy that, when we DECLARED WAR to find weapons of mass destruction which the pres. who cheated his way into the whitehouse assured the world were there.

Our guys and gals are dying to cover some lying politicians.

Oh, and to make sure the oil companies here rake in just as much as they can before we find an alternative fuel source.

I was quite happy not talking about that at all.

Oh well.

 

[Ian S.]

Well just to chime right in on those whom also forget to look beyond the devastation of 9/11 or far left wing accusations of a president making office from one states votes out of hmmmmmm a mere 50. LOL don't get me wrong I'm a Bush hater no doubt but what happened with the second election.. oh yeah thats right THE MORON WON!! "WILOMN" When it comes to Iraq. Here's a cool little link / article for you to read.
http://www.phrusa.org/research/chemical_weapons/chemiraqgas2.html

I for the most part agree with Arconna. I'll be the first to agree that the timing of the Iraq war could not have been worse. I want Osama's head on a platter for my thanksgiving. In an essence 9/11 obviously and rightfully so, foreshadowed the horrible deeds of Saddam and CO. The people of Iraq couldn't overthrow Saddam and his regime.(not a prayer in the world). Saddam Hussein massacred and slaughtered the entirety of ones family tree still living, just from heresy. For one individual of that family apposing his ruling he'd take out the ENTIRE FAMILY. They didn't stand trial they were shot in the back of the @#$ing head. ALL OF THEM!!! Women and children alike. Regime members (Iraqi soldiers) freely walked about and raped children and women without repercussions. Great government huh.

Now reflect upon the fact that Iraq is/was the third most wealthy nation world wide.
You think for a minuite that after 1991 they weren't opperating with al-Qaida.
The old saying goes if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.
Oh and the awnser is "yes" al-Qaida sells were ramped in Iraq.

LOL I'll leave the parenting thing alone.

 

[pawsfoot]

Vicki, I've got to say, you're full of it.

4 year olds don't start doing drugs unless they are shown how or forced to. They may imitate, but that is the fault of those whom they, the 4 year olds, are imitating for showing such behaviour in the presense of a 4 year old.

Also, the almost certainty of kids, 6th graders no less, NOT having sex in the bathroom at a dance is far far far more likely than the almost certain LIE you told above.

IF you don't know it for certain, if you can't really prove it, and it's as outrageous a statement as that, you may just want to keep quiet and save a shred of credibility.

nastynotch, you're young, dumb, and full of pride.

Sure, you're on a great road, but hubris will kick your prideful ass from here to next tuesday. Hopefully, by then, you'll be able to understand why, but I have doubts that it will be so easy for you.

Oh, and by the way, check with ANY law enforcement officer in ANY town in America about "throwing a child into a wall" and see if they don't want to talk to someones parents about child abuse. That IS child abuse and the fact that you suffered it and are explaining to us that it isn't is more proof of how damaging it is.

IF someone threw a friend of yours into a wall at school, would that be considered a violent act?

If someone threw a friend of yours into a wall, at the mall let's say, would you look for a cop or security to report that person?

Just because it is your parent does NOT make it ok for such behaviour to occur.

I would like to say you do not know me and you do not know what I saw inthat bathroom. So until you see through my eyes you can keep your mouth shut. I was obviously not being realistic when I said she was going to be doing drugs at 4, I just meant that she would be doing these thigns at a young age because my cousin is an idea and should never have had kids. You need to just mind your own business and keep your mouth shut about my posts. I am not asking you to read them so just don't in the future. Does calling someone a liar (even though you do not knwo that for a fact) make you feel better inside? Are you that low of a person to have to put someone else down even though you do not know the facts? I think I am more grown up at 20 than you will ever be.

 

[pawsfoot]

I would also like to say to everyone who is reading this post, that I regret even posting anymore on these matters. Everyone was all nice just stating their opinion until some few people come in a ruin it for everyone. I am sorry if I have caused any problem with voicing my opinion and I will not be doing it anymore. I will stick to geckos from now on.

 

[Perefalcon]

Also, I don't think I brought up any of the war stuff, I was quite content not talking about members whose parents abused them being more likely to in turn abuse their as yet unborn offspring.

I didn't say you did bring up the war stuff, as you can see that is in a seperate paragraph.

And I especially don't like your insinuation that having been physically punished as a child (I don't consider it beating, I was an out of control child I've never second guessed any occasion that a spoon was broken) that I would be a danger to my "unborn child" I am already a parent of a very well behaved little girl and she is FAR from abused. I take that VERY personally and offensively.