The WORST season in Golden Gate Geckos' history!

[Stitchex]

This is my first year of breeding Leos, and my Leos' first time, too. I used to only have one female and one male when I bred them though. My female usually always eats crickets, with the occasional mealworm(about once or twice every two months), but my male is a different story. He eats nothing but mealworms. I got only two eggs, single egg clutches, from this pair. The first one was infertile. The second one died in the egg around day 70. I'm wondering if it matters what parent eats the mealworms that causes the breeding sucess to go down.

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Not for nothing and I did post very early on in the thread about some females having a sub-par year, but I am having a good season relative to what I have had in the last few,.............. however, I believe there was definitely something going on with the mealworms, because i have bred mealies before, and this year all the beetles i had (from mealies I bought) would not breed or reproduce, so I had to keep buying and buying and buying by the 10,000..... sounds like someone almost made it so that everyone would have to keep buying and couldn't breed their own mealies from stock purchased this year... call me a conspiracy theorist.. but I bet there are chemicals that would cause this in the pesticide realm. If I had to take a guess on what may have occurred, I would go so far as to say that someone (probably a major producer of mealworms) did something (chemical enhancement) to try and improve their business, but shot themselves in the foot by unknowingly making their beetles infertile in the process, and caused a massive mealworm shortage after they discovered that they were unable to reproduce mealworms themselves. That chemical probably also poisoned many animals that consumed these "treated" mealworms. Does anyone else find themselves thinking this is what really happened????? Just curious as I speculate on what might have been.

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

WoW i was starting to think this was just my problem had a high number of non hatching eggs they would make it up to about the 45-55 day mark and just die off and a hand full of deforms i only used meal worms as well really starting think if this was a meal worm prob this is crazy

 

[pkrtech]

Someone that is a large breeder should send some of the mealworms they are getting from different farms to a testing lab, may be a bit expensive but with the large amount of geckos they have that are risking would be worth it. Only the leaders in the industry would be able to really afford and help the smaller keepersto find out if it is indeed the mealworms. IMHO.

 

[Morph]

wow this is really crazy! i have a friend who breeds but just locally. i showed him this and he said he's glad he stayed with crickets...all of his bred just fine this year with the excpetion of one out of twenty three. ( a lot better percentages than eveyone else seems to be having ) how long does it take for mealworms to breed? from the sounds of things everyone that has been breeding geckos and feeding them mealworms for at least the past year has been having problems...mealworms have got to be the probablem.

 

[GeckoJunkie]

sounds like someone almost made it so that everyone would have to keep buying and couldn't breed their own mealies from stock purchased this year... call me a conspiracy theorist.. but I bet there are chemicals that would cause this in the pesticide realm. If I had to take a guess on what may have occurred, I would go so far as to say that someone (probably a major producer of mealworms) did something (chemical enhancement) to try and improve their business, but shot themselves in the foot by unknowingly making their beetles infertile in the process, and caused a massive mealworm shortage after they discovered that they were unable to reproduce mealworms themselves. That chemical probably also poisoned many animals that consumed these "treated" mealworms. Does anyone else find themselves thinking this is what really happened????? Just curious as I speculate on what might have been.

I totally agree with you, earlier this breeding season, I tried my hand at breeding our own stock, only to have minimal success. After this last batch of mealies (some from Armstrong and some from Sunshine), all of the mealies were very small and hardly moving, I gutloaded them for 4 days before feeding, and some of our geckos that aren't doing so well have made some improvements.
I took the rest of these mealies andhave allowed them to go to beetles, and I am surprised that the beetles and worms are absolutely great looking.

When we first read Marcia's post, I went and did a search on molds that infest grains and the like; this is just my opinion, either A. It is something like Frank said, or B. It is a mold from the feed(mold is very toxic to humans and animals, what's to say that some of the geckos with healthy immune systems were able to fight off the mold, only to pass it to their eggs and offspring, and those geckos (perhaps weaker due to breeding or immune systems) were not able to fend it off and a type of "wasting disease" resulted in them.

I would like to hear from some of the suppliers of mealies, because this is going to impact them too, because alot of us have invested ALOT in our geckos. Monetary and Emotionally.

Sincerely, Mrs. GeckoJunkie (Courtney)

 

[GeckoEcho]

I agree we need to hear from a meal worm supplier and get the real answer. Without most of us buying their mealworms due to this probem they're business will be doomed to suffer treamendously. My girlfriend will tell you that I'm the king of conspiracy theories but I think this one is starting to have serious merit. Some of you that have been dealing with the mealworm suppliers for years and years should see if one or a few of them would be open to a round table to clear the air.

 

[dprince]

Marcia, you are SOOOOO not alone.

I've had a terrible hatch rate this year (and it definitely dropped towards the middle/end of the season) - maybe about 50-60%? I've had full term eggs not hatch, lots of infertile eggs, problems with proven MALES as well as females, as well as some deformities. :main_no: My guess is, all of us combined isn't a coincidence.

I've started breeding my own mealworms - it'll be a long time until I can generate enough to feed my geckos, LOL - and for now, am feeding crickets to the adults and mealies to the babies (as long as I have them.) Though I've been fortunate enough to hatch a number of fabulous babies, I too, am ready for the season to end. What a sad way to feel. :main_no:

 

[shadowx362]

I really think there is something fishy going on with the meal worms. People who used meal worms are having the most problems while people who don't aren't. How can we get the truth out of those meal worms breeders?
well I hope what ever is going on it will straighten it self out. Can we also discuss what type of supplement your using and what part of the country your in or world? Maybe its local? Water supply? food suppliers?
***side note**
why are the crickets price going up?

 

[RAZERWIREREPTILES]

WoW this is really bothering me....... beside the Egg problems I have see this year Has any one had any of there animals die off on them out of now where just go down hill drasticaly like with in 2 weeks. As far as other animals that eat meal worms having problems I HAD a great group of Tokays and after switching them to meal worms only, i have had 3 die off pretty fast and have had no eggs from them as well........
This has really be bugging me i could not for the life of me figure out why i have lost animals for NO reason my babys were doing so good the Tokays got so big this year it was crazy and then it just hit and i have been beating myself up trying to figure out what caused this nothing changed this year for them so insight on this topic would be great.........but what if it does turn out to be a chemical problem or a spore problem and the stores that sold them to us knew about it what are we to do............
this sucks to think i fed my babys possible posion or spores and that caused them to die. Just had another hatching tonight born with it insides on the outside was alive for a little bit till he kept trying to get free from the egg and just ripped everything apart this is very dishearting to me to think the meal worm could be the cause of the problems this year. Thank you to those of you willing to say something on the subject i understand who you could feel about letting of know of problems i am feeling that as i write this out but if you all were to keep quite we would just keep thinking it was something we were doing thank you all again
Out of 26 eggs i have hatched out 7 alot of eggs haved had the still birth problem and a good bit were laid and recovered shortly after laying and found to be funny shaped all dented and everything

 

[GeckoJunkie]

Roy,
Ill address your post, I have had a couple of hatchlings that were the same way.AND yes it is VERY disheartening!! I have had several females that just dropped dead for no reason. Just unexplained. They were fine one minute and look in again and they would be laying there dead. I very rarely bite into a conspiracy theory but this is a time that I believe there is a legitimate gripe.
I am also glad that alot of people are biting the bullet and speaking up. I would rather know it was something outside my control than think it was something that I was doing wrong. I know there will be some that read this post and know that this is what happened to them, they may be too proud to post but at least the ones of us that DID post gave the others a piece of mind.

Thomas

 

[GECKOFREAK]

I have also been having issues with infertile eggs, single egg clutches, and some proven breeders producing nothing at all...:main_no:

 

[LadyGecko]

I have a question pertaining to the theory about
the meal worm problem and if it is related to the bedding/meal that was being used
Please don't laugh at me because i don't know if this is ridiculous or not

Is the bedding commonly used the "chicken meal" that feed stores sell to feed poultry and is there anything going on in the poultry world with animals being feed this meal?

Sorry-if this is not applicable or sounds way out in left field but it just crossed my mind

OK-I thought some more about it and I came up with these 2 links from
doing a simple search on "chicken feed problems"

Arsenic hits very close to home for me since my tap water levels of it exceed the safety standards four or more times per year

We were talking about growth hormones-from reading the first link-I got that they are already present in the some of chicken meal being fed to poultry
I don't know if this is anything or a "blind alley"



Just thought that I would toss this in with the many other questions surrounding the mystery of the meal worms

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07067/767756-34.stm

http://www.upc-online.org/health/50604arsenic.htm

Sandy

PS-I DID finally email my bug supplier tonight-i should see him on Wednesday night

I asked him if he has had any problems raising/producing meal worms and hope to have an answer from him then and also what bedding that he uses

 

[GeckoGathering]

Problem Season

I'm hoping that more people post who are having good seasons (if there are any) so we can get a better sense of the extent of the problem. If someone is better than I at designing research studies, it would be great to produce a form here so everyone could submit in the same format their stats for the season. Then we need a statistician to analyze it and let us know what's happened (that doesn't tell us why it happened, but will give us some data to work with).

Aliza

Wow people, I didn't realize so many were having the problems. I feel a bit bad to say I am 100 percent hatchings with no problems as far as bad eggs, deformities, eggs laid in the open etc.....I did have some 1 egg clutches and a couple females that seem to want to breed but the males passed on them.... I'm only a hobbyist
with 2008 producing 20 to 25 eggs but I do feed meal worms.
If thoughts of meal worm problems....someone that does not feed them
might be great to find out how his season was..................
Albey, if I recall correctly, uses nothing but crickets.
Females are hatched not in an incubator and perlite is in his hatch boxes.
take care. HJ

 

[shadowx362]

Hey should there be a chat time set so everyone could discuss their problems?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

WOW. This is too much to be a coincidence! I can't express how much I appreciate the honesty and candidness of all of you who have shared your experiences this season. I know it's hard to admit when we have issues like this, but even though the reptile community can be cruel at times, there is a deep sense of loyalty and a bond between us that cannot be shaken. We NEED each other for the sake of our animals and the future of our hobbies/businesses.

[puts on moderator's hat] We need to be careful about mentioning feeder suppliers by name on this public forum. It is against the TOS of this website to talk smak about the ethics and business practices of breeders and companies. [takes off moderator's hat]

Some of you 'old-timers' may recall that about 7-8 years ago, I lost 24 of my breeders to aflatoxic poisoning (Aspergillus flavus) from feeders that were cultured on moldy chicken mash by a particular cricket breeder. It was a horrible experience, and I almost quit keeping leopard geckos over it. I admit that as a result I am hyper-sensitive and almost paranoid about the bugs I feed my geckos.

I was told directly by the mealworm supplier I got my mealies from that there 'may' have been a problem with pesticides in the feed/bedding for the mealworms. I also spoke to another well-known feeder farm that there was a mold spore in the bedding/feed. So which is it?

IF, and I repeat 'if' I (we) have been lied to or mis-informed in ANY way by the feeder suppliers, I will go postal on them. I am a very peaceful person that is slow to anger, but I will go ballistic if I find that there has been a cover-up that could affect our geckos in ANY way.

If there is a problem with the mealworms, it seems to me that it would also affect other animals that eat them... like birds, primates, and animals such as sugar gliders. Does anyone know of any bird or primate breeders that feed mealworms that have had low productivity and/or egg and hatchling issues?

I think that perhaps I may post a POLL where we can answer the questions in an anonymous format. By the number of emails and PM's I have received, it appears that the majority of breeders are reluctant to say anything for fear of their reputations.

 

[GeckoJunkie]

I apologize if I violated TOS regarding my comments in my earlier post.
Does anyone know of any sites that are like GF that are for birds, and other animals...perhaps a zoo or a rehab center?

All I know is that a variety of reasons have caused us to decide to grow our own, and I believe that we will continue to do so, unless an emergency arises that we have no choice but to buy.

Yes, Miss Marcia, please do a poll, it would be a good idea.

Sincerely, Mrs. GeckoJunkie (Courtney)

 

[Valley Reptiles]

This is my first year and have about 18 females breeding. So far i have only had maybe 6 bad eggs, 16 due to hatch this month and about 30 more that still look good. 4 eggs hatched, 2 were perfect, one died and the other looks great other than a kinked tail.

I feed mostly mealworms with crickets once a week. i have been breeding my own worms and make their food myself.

I had a problem with my Sunglow group where 3 females died from not eating anything even when seperated and the rest of the Sunglow females stopped laying a month ago. i got 16 eggs (4 bad) from 6 females. My other groups are still laying eggs about every 12-15 days and they are all healthy looking.

 

[KelliH]

I lost one of my adult female geckos(a really beautiful "Red Striped Aptor" I produced R.I.P.), that I had hoped to get breeding this year, a few months ago.

I'm sorry about your female, Dan.
Not sure if this has been mentioned but almost all of the mealworms that these bug companies sell come from one main supplier.

 

[KelliH]

Also I just want to say that I can understand why maybe some breeders would not want to post in this thread. They are afraid. My message to them is this:

Do not be afraid of ruining your reputations! If anything you will gain respect from others by being honest and open, and helping us "the leopard gecko community" figure out what the heck is going on this year (if anything weird IS).