Why are macks going so cheap?

[snared99]

THis seems to be a huge topic each year...lol
Now it is no surprise leos drop every year, meaning new morphs. But i think the undercutting this year, especially with the macks is huge. I really dont care what people sell their animals for, that is their business, but there has been some huge drops in the prices. Im not going to use any examples because i never want to point fingers, but everyone knows who they are.

Unfortunetly this is the leo market and no one will get rich anytime soon. It is disheartening in a way for how the market has gone on the macks, but they are a codom morph and were handled poorly from the get go.

This is just my 2 cents I did not mean to P.O. anyone, but it is true very few lucky individuals have been able to make a living off of leos.

 

[Kotsay1414]

Basic economics... As supply rises, demand falls, thus lowering the price.

 

[yellermelon]

You guys are right the mack prices are dropping, so just shipp all your macks out to me, because you arnt makin no money off them! Ill PM you my address!

 

[Jeremy Letkey]

Pat, how is this year different than any other?
I know that this is different for you because now you have these animals to offer for sale but it really is the same thing each year. Your relatively new to the leopard gecko market. I know that you made sure that you purchased quality stock to start your breeding efforts. This has been the trend in leopards for as long as I can remember.

If you compare it to the automobile market...
you loose money the second you drive it off the lot.

 

[PaulSage]

I don't understand what anyone is referring to as far as "undercutting." I don't watch the classifieds very close, but I haven't seen any prices that I think "undercut" the market. Sure, there are a lot of morphs that are significantly cheaper than last year, but considering that there are significantly more animals being produced of that morph this year, I honestly feel that some morphs are actually over-priced.

I realize that everyone is claiming to not be "pointing fingers," but c'mon... I'm not upset with anyone for their comments, I'm just frustrated by the never-ending misconceptions of how the market for an animal that can go from egg to egg in 12 months works--especially for a co-dominant morph. Supply and demand is not just a theory; economics is a science.

Just to give an example of something Robin mentioned (with which I completely agree), let's say I buy a male double-recessive mack co-dom morph for $750. Roughly a year later I breed that male to six double-recessive females (valued at approx. $75) who have [a conservative] ten offspring that season. Half of those offspring would be double-recessives, and the other half would be double-recessive co-doms. That's 30 double-recessive co-doms produced from one $750 gecko, or roughly $1200 worth of breeders if you count the females. I paid $750 for that male because he was significantly more "rare" when I purchased him. The $750 price was fair in my opinion. After I have produced 30 offspring of that morph from that one once-rare gecko, that morph is significantly less rare. Now, obviously there are other factors affecting the sale price of a given animal aside from the quantity of them being produced, but given the scenario, what should one realistically expect the price of those double-recessive co-doms to be? (Consider that a rhetorical question - just think about it.)

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Unfortunetly this is the leo market and no one will get rich anytime soon. It is disheartening in a way for how the market has gone on the macks, but they are a codom morph and were handled poorly from the get go.

I agree with this completely. Something to consider... when there are only a few 'ethical' breeders working with a new morph, there are less available and therefore demand a higher price. Once the market becomes saturated with the morph, which is predictable, they become harder to move and prices will naturally fall.

 

[paulnj]

I paid $600 for my double recessive codom male and love him reguardless of how much I paid or could have paid

Thanks Kelli and Pat for the wonderful addition to my collection.

 

[snared99]

Pat, how is this year different than any other?
I know that this is different for you because now you have these animals to offer for sale but it really is the same thing each year. Your relatively new to the leopard gecko market. I know that you made sure that you purchased quality stock to start your breeding efforts. This has been the trend in leopards for as long as I can remember.

If you compare it to the automobile market...
you loose money the second you drive it off the lot.

I dont mean any disrespect, nor did i want to start a argument over this topic, but i have been buying and selling geckos for more then 2 years( in fact LL was started 7 years ago, with animals being sold for 5). Im well aware the market lowers very quickly.

ALL I was trying to say is the drops/peaks of the macks in particular are very large. I didnt want to use any examples, But how can a justification of a LVPAsnow for $350 be justified when they were $600 last week?? Now this isnt supply and demand as much as breeding wanting to move these fast. I could see supply and demand if there were alot of rainwater snows on the market but I can count on one hand how many breeders have them for sale. And i can count on 2 hands how many are up for sale period.

As stated before Whatever people want to do with there avaible animals is their business. I dont want to get into a argument about this topic, as it comes up every year. I just wanted to say my opinion on the macks in general.

 

[PaulSage]

I didnt want to use any examples, But how can a justification of a LVPAsnow for $350 be justified when they were $600 last week??

Pat, I have not seen anyone else advertise RWPA snows for several months, but like I said, I don't watch the classifieds very closely. Last week I didn't even have computer access. As far as justifying the price I put on them, see my previous post. IF I had seen one advertised at $600 last week, it wouldn't have affected what price I posted them at. I posted them at what I felt they were worth, and I stand by that as I think it's a fair price.

Now this isnt supply and demand as much as breeding wanting to move these fast. I could see supply and demand if there were alot of rainwater snows on the market but I can count on one hand how many breeders have them for sale. And i can count on 2 hands how many are up for sale period.

If I wanted to "move these fast" I wouldn't have waited until they were as old as they are. My first babies this year hatched mid-February. Yesterday was the first time I've advertised any of this year's babies. Also, if I wanted to "move these fast" I would have posted more than just the 1.2 that I did. (you'd have to take off your shoes and count on both hands and both feet )

I'm never in a hurry to sell the animals that I produce, which is why you'll never see me post a Leopard Gecko for sale unless it is a minimum of 15 grams and four weeks of age. I would buy more racks before I'd start unloading geckos that I did not feel were 100% well-started and ready to be sold. I may be in a hurry to take advantage of the time I have available between trips to my new home, but I would NEVER be in such a hurry as to potentially risk the well-being of any of my animals just to "move them fast" and I deeply resent any such implication, intended or not.

 

[KelliH]

My friends... this is so petty. Let's not argue over prices, please. Here is the way I see it: People have a right to price their animals at whatever price they choose. We should all be bloody thankful (I am, every day) that we are able to sell our babies and put some money back into our hobby (in my case business, but it's the same principle). Most of the leopard gecko folks are good people that truly care about their animals, and are excited about working with different morphs. My advice is to try not to take things like this personally and even if you do, try not to let it get to you. Trust me, I have had my fair share of critics that have been upset with me about my pricing. I just don't let it bother me anymore, it's not worth the headache. Also, one more thing... when pricing leos, it's best to think of the price for the entire season, rather than just the next month. For example, you want to try not to start something off at the beginning of the season at one price and then towards the end of the season it's half that original price. It's best to keep a stable price all season, which means that we have to be realistic about our prices, which comes with experience and knowlege of the market in general.

Peace Everybody! :banana: :love:

 

[snared99]

Pat, I have not seen anyone else advertise RWPA snows for several months, but like I said, I don't watch the classifieds very closely. Last week I didn't even have computer access. As far as justifying the price I put on them, see my previous post. IF I had seen one advertised at $600 last week, it wouldn't have affected what price I posted them at. I posted them at what I felt they were worth, and I stand by that as I think it's a fair price.


If I wanted to "move these fast" I wouldn't have waited until they were as old as they are. My first babies this year hatched mid-February. Yesterday was the first time I've advertised any of this year's babies. Also, if I wanted to "move these fast" I would have posted more than just the 1.2 that I did. (you'd have to take off your shoes and count on both hands and both feet )

I'm never in a hurry to sell the animals that I produce, which is why you'll never see me post a Leopard Gecko for sale unless it is a minimum of 15 grams and four weeks of age. I would buy more racks before I'd start unloading geckos that I did not feel were 100% well-started and ready to be sold. I may be in a hurry to take advantage of the time I have available between trips to my new home, but I would NEVER be in such a hurry as to potentially risk the well-being of any of my animals just to "move them fast" and I deeply resent any such implication, intended or not.

Im not arguing over this anymore, it is as kelli stated PETTY. This thread was not(atleast I think) intended to point no one out. I had never stated anywhere about you moving out geckos fast or harming their well being(so i have no idea where you got that idea).

Further more i was not pointing you in specific in any of my posts, just stating the trends int he market as of now. There is no need to argue over these petty things when we should all be helping each other, and making this a better hobby to be in. What kind of picture are we painting for new people in the hobby if we argue about everything(which is why i rarely get into a discuss on here about certain topics).

In conclusion paul im sorry if you had taken anything i had said personally, I meant no disrespect to your animals or prices. I would much rather have a friendly discussion then a arguement about one thing we will never make alot of with leos...MONEy...lol

 

[paulnj]

I honestly started this thread with a genuine question that was not intended to cause anyone to get upset. This forum is full of the greatest, most knowledgable gecko breeders and I would never want any of them to get the impression I think otherwise.

I am obviously fairly new to leopard geckos and it shows, but regaurdless of that I wish to learn more and make positive relationships with other in the hobby.

I agree that it's petty to argue about this and honestly wish I had not brought up this topic.

Paul Sage, your animals are top shelf and I would gladly buy your geckos at any price!

 

[Lizard Lair]

Something else to consider when pricing leos for sale - if your geckos are nice looking, big and healthy, and they are priced at the going market rate but there are no takers for many months - then it's time to drop the price. That is not undercutting, that is facing the cold hard truth that the price is to high. To do otherwise would mean racks overflowing with geckos and not enough room for new babies. When I show new morphs to my husband and say this is worth $2000, or that one is worth $1000 or whatever he always says it is only worth what somebody else is willing to pay. It's taken me a couple of years to figure out that he is right.

 

[robin]

I dont mean any disrespect, nor did i want to start a argument over this topic, but i have been buying and selling geckos for more then 2 years( in fact LL was started 7 years ago, with animals being sold for 5).

what is LL? i'm lost here :main_huh:

 

[paulnj]

Robin,

LL is Pat's website and trade name..... luxurious leopards

 

[robin]

oh never heard of it

 

[KelliH]

Something else to consider when pricing leos for sale - if your geckos are nice looking, big and healthy, and they are priced at the going market rate but there are no takers for many months - then it's time to drop the price. That is not undercutting, that is facing the cold hard truth that the price is to high. To do otherwise would mean racks overflowing with geckos and not enough room for new babies. When I show new morphs to my husband and say this is worth $2000, or that one is worth $1000 or whatever he always says it is only worth what somebody else is willing to pay. It's taken me a couple of years to figure out that he is right.

You are exactly right, Shell. Great post.

 

[snared99]

oh never heard of it

Well now you have...lol

 

[GeckoJunkie]

I think Shelly sumed it up quite well. Took me some time to figure that one out as well.

 

[paulnj]

Great to hear from you shelly and I agree whole heartedly with your comments!