A TANGELO.....REDO!

[Golden Gate Geckos]

If the tangerine color is either polygenic or line-bred or both than why would a tangelo bred to a normal produce all normals? From everything I have read the genes in question would still result in producing non "normal" offspring. The other question would be if they are line-bred or polygenic how could two normal offspring from the above pair produce tangelos? Isn't that kind of textbook expression of recessives?

Since the Tangelo IS an albino, the 'albino' is recessive... but the tangerine/orange coloration is line-bred. If you breed any recessive trait (in this case albino) to a normal, all the offspring will be normal het for albino, but not necessarily het for 'tangerine'.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Hunter,

I may be wrong on this but the Tangelo x normal het for nothing would result in Normal het Talbino with varying amounts of orange coloration.

Please someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[SaSobek]

My original Tangerine Tremper Male “Woody” (who I still have) was from Drago X (one of) The Three Ladies (according to my old emails from Alberto) from that 2003 A&M era. I think he was a May 2004 baby if I am not mistaken. He is definitely a cool part of my collection and as Matt indicated, Tangelo wasn’t even a coined Morph name back then and I still think the striking visual appeal of some of these geckos with the white bands (especially the jungle varieties) is impressive.

Drago was the best gecko I haved ever seen at the time IMO that was a baby pic again this was before raptors snows and enigmas

 

[SaSobek]

Hunter,

I may be wrong on this but the Tangelo x normal het for nothing would result in Normal het Talbino with varying amounts of orange coloration.

Please someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Thanks,

Ryan

that should be true

 

[SaSobek]

SaSobek, thank you for the history lesson.

You have to know where you have been, to know where you are going.:main_thumbsup:

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Word! Here is Woody today, and as a juvie.

 

[Sunrise Reptile]

Tangs are pretty much all created equal some exhibit a brighter or deeper shade that the particular breeder is looking for. Then they name that line after generations and boom we have 6 different lines of Tangs.

I don't understand your point in the first sentence. As I see it, you're contradicting yourself. First you say that "Tangs are pretty much all created equal" and then go on by saying "some exhibit a brighter or deeper shade that the particular breeder is looking for". If the latter is the case, then they aren't created equal, right?

Look, I'm not arguing. But I believe if you've been working on linebreeding for like 3+ years, and/or there are distinct characteristics that set your line-bred Tangs apart from another breeder's line-bred Tangs, why shouldn't each of those breeders receive well deserved recognition for their efforts and contributions to the LG community? I have no problem referring to a Tang as an "HG", or "Electric", or "Albey's", or whatever. I think they've EARNED that recognition. And, you certainly CAN see very distinct and significant differences in their stock. :main_yes:

 

[shadowx362]

Old "tangelos" are way too nice and that should be one of the "The classics coalition" morphs of interest IMO .

 

[malt_geckos]

In my opinion a tangelo is a combo morph, just like a diablo blanco for example. It's a mixture of some of texas's finest tangerines to trempers...then you can get tangs het tremper...breed them together and you get some tangelos...but I can't make a tangelo from a tremper and a tangerine because it's not my line...it's like me making a raining red stripe and calling it such....

Here's a picture of our "super" tangelo. lol. We have a male but no pics of him. His color is a lot better than hers...they are older now too and their color intensifies as they get older.

Those aren't very nice pictures. I'll take more when we get home...

 

[Gregg M]

Look, I'm not arguing. But I believe if you've been working on linebreeding for like 3+ years, and/or there are distinct characteristics that set your line-bred Tangs apart from another breeder's line-bred Tangs, why shouldn't each of those breeders receive well deserved recognition for their efforts and contributions to the LG community? I have no problem referring to a Tang as an "HG", or "Electric", or "Albey's", or whatever. I think they've EARNED that recognition. And, you certainly CAN see very distinct and significant differences in their stock. :main_yes:

I agree 100% Maurice... Thats why when someone else and myself introduce the leo community to an old but highly distinct combo, I dont want to get any crap about a new morph name being dropped... LOL:main_thumbsup:

 

[SaSobek]

In my opinion a tangelo is a combo morph, just like a diablo blanco for example. It's a mixture of some of texas's finest tangerines to trempers...then you can get tangs het tremper...breed them together and you get some tangelos...but I can't make a tangelo from a tremper and a tangerine because it's not my line...it's like me making a raining red stripe and calling it such....

its not a combo its not just a tang and an albino cross then breed back to each other.

its more like albinos that are oranger then others and you keep breeding orange banded together trying to make it better.
i was not there when he made them from what i have heard it was not a cross but selecting albinos with better color and breeding them back to each other. if there ever was a cross it was when the albino first came out when he was makeing all the hets for the first albinos to make more albinos. its not a combo its a selectively bred thing (not to be confused with line breeding)

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

According to RT's description on his website, they are not a 'combination' morph created by crossing a TA with a HT. They are a selectively line-bred color morph created by crossing the most orange specimens with each other to produce a VERY orange albino.

 

[SaSobek]

hahah they are the "classics" that we had years ago hahahah that simple

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Boy, do I wish I would have known I had a 'Tangelo' 6 years ago when I got Luther and started producing them! So who says 'classic' morphs can't go up in price with a new and improved, catchy name? (Hmmmm... maybe I should start calling my Patty CT's "Lemon-Drops"?)

 

[SaSobek]

Boy, do I wish I would have known I had a 'Tangelo' 6 years ago when I got Luther and started producing them! So who says 'classic' morphs can't go up in price with a new and improved, catchy name? (Hmmmm... maybe I should start calling my Patty CT's "Lemon-Drops"?)

i told you you could get more money from your geckos cause they are pure :main_thumbsup:

 

[hunter66]

Okay so for the sake of argument lets say that nicks results are as stated and that tangelo to normal yielded all normals but the F1 breeding produced tangelos. Polygenic or not the expression here follows that of a recessive trait right?

Also if all tangerine color is a polygenic trait than there should be no super because that infers that it's an incomplete dominant trait like mack snows.

There is way to much that we don't know for anybody to be 100% right about this.

I cut this from http://www.vmsherp.com/LCGenetics501.htm

Why all the variation in offspring? Well, remember that these polygenic types are created by achieving the proper combination of several alleles at several loci. Some of these may be recessive alleles, some incomplete dominant, and some may even be dominant. Many may be trait-linked as well, and some may even be sex-linked. Most will not be discernible to the eye individually. Consider that the parents used in breeding trials are likely heterozygous for some or all of the alleles involved and you get quite the potential for variation. Trying to get all of these to turn out correctly gets progressively harder as the number of alleles involved increases.

Hunter

 

[Okee Reps]

......... (Hmmmm... maybe I should start calling my Patty CT's "Lemon-Drops"?)

I know it was a joke but calling Carrot-tail Patties Lemon Drops sure perked my interest. :main_yes:

 

[Nigel4less]

Also if all tangerine color is a polygenic trait than there should be no super because that infers that it's an incomplete dominant trait like mack snows.

The Super name has been around wayyyyyyy before the Mack snow was even a figment of the imagination. And also the Super is not Super Tangerine... Super only Applies to Hypomelanism aswell. The thing that you should all also consider is that their are two types of Hypos the Line Bred Hypo we most commonly see. Aswell as the Ghost which is Ray Hine's Dominant Hypo that came out in the 90's, so technically speaking if we line bred Ghosts long enough we would be able to produce Super Ghosts. But thats not the case nor is that the case with Tangerine color as the Super name applies to Hypos. So technically speaking most tangerines actually I may say nearly all tangerines have the Hypo gene somewhere in their lineage somewhere. So to say that the someone has Het Tangerines would also infer that they have Het Hypos. And that is simply not the case.....

I`m done standing on my soap box for now :main_yes:

 

[Gregg M]

Hunter... Like I said, the tangerine is a polygenic trait... They might seem to work in a recessive fashion but with the first outcross it is as plain as the nose on our faces that it is not recessive... Any tangerine outcross animal will exibit atleast a very small amount of tangerine...

Now if you breed two outcrossed tangs together, you will get some animals that have much more tangerine than the parent animals becaus of the fact that it is a polygenic trait... This does not make them het for tangerine... And the tangerine coloration has no super form... The color can only be improved by linebreeding... This does not make it a co-dominant gene...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Okay so for the sake of argument lets say that nicks results are as stated and that tangelo to normal yielded all normals but the F1 breeding produced tangelos. Polygenic or not the expression here follows that of a recessive trait right?

The expression of the albino trait IS recessive, and Nick's results confirm that. It is the deep tangerine color that is not recessive... it is line-bred. Most of the line-bred traits are carried on genetically, a lot like incomplete dominance... but they are not recessive.

(The Mack Snow is co-dominant, not incomplete dominant).