Another nail in the coffin....

[Gregg M]

Seems like this is just not going to work out unfortunately... I personally would love to see the cross happen but these odds are just rediculous...

I can also give a little input on the patternless amel fat tail project. I have an Urban Gecko line het patternless male. I bred him to 9 amel females last year and didn't hatch a single baby. I got plenty of eggs, most of which looked good at first. I'm trying it again this year, but with only 3 amel females. I don't want to waste that many female's production on something until I know it will work. I'll post updates when/if I have any.

Thanks!

Garrick

Thats an average of 8 eggs per female... Out of 72 eggs give or take a few, not one hatched... Not good...

 

[dprince]

That's not the first time I've heard that same issue. :main_huh: I know another fat tail breeder (who can hopefully share his results) that had a VERY similar experience. What are folks thoughts on why this might be?

 

[spykerherps]

There are a lot of "fatal genes" out their in the animal world, but people have been able to get around them. I know the data to this day speaks for itself but I would like to think (hope) we can do it. for instance.

The araucana chicken has a fatal gene if bred to another araucana no live babies or crested canaries bald unhealthy babies or high mortality rate but people still have produced both with cross breeding. I believe those genes are dominant though not two recessives. araucana to non araucana gives some aracaunas or at lest hets(not a 100% on that one, will have to refresh my brain) and same with crested canaries crested to non crested yields a portion of healthy crested babies.

Time Will Tell

 

[spykerherps]

To Greggs Nail in the coffin . That's what crow bars are for dude.:devilish:

 

[David Loftin]

With the Araucanas.. Really? I have have never heard that before. I had Araucanas/Ameraucana whatever you want to call them. And I never had any problems hatching them out. No infertile eggs.. No weak babies.. Just cute noisy things that hatched out of blue-green eggs.

 

[dprince]

With the Araucanas.. Really? I have have never heard that before. I had Araucanas/Ameraucana whatever you want to call them. And I never had any problems hatching them out. No infertile eggs.. No weak babies.. Just cute noisy things that hatched out of blue-green eggs.

Same here. We raised Aracanas for many years........lots of cute babies and lots of green and blue eggs.

 

[spykerherps]

I read that Araucanas are different then Americanas even though breeders alot of them sell them as Araucana/Americana. Just do a google on Araucanas and then on Americanas. Ara's have the fatal gene and Americanas don't. also a good way to tell is Americanas have tails and no wattels w/ a beard and araucanas have not tails with "ear tufts". there are other subtle differences and they both lay blue green eggs.
http://www.ameraucana.org/faq.html#ONE

You both must have had Ameraucanas or mutts then.

sorry for the side track
Now on to Fatties.

 

[chansbrow]

Back to Geckos?

Am I reading this right? Garrick says that he bred a het patty male to 9 amel females, which should have produced
50% het patty, het Amel (which apparently don't live)... and 50% het amel. Why don't the het amels make it? I know the ratios are only a rough estimate, but he should have had at least one het amel without the patty gene, shouldn't he?

 

[snared99]

THIS DOESNT PROVE A THING!! Sorry i have to disagree here. If garrick used a het patty male to bred with his amel females, the offspring would be poss het patty and 100% amel. So why are the non patternless hets hatching??? If the 2 genes are truely 'fatal' then only the double hets would die and the non hets would have hatched.
I think there us something else at work here that we have yet to catch, but there are in fact double hets alive already.

 

[chansbrow]

That's exactly what i am saying! I couldn't agree with you more!

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

Same here on the arcaunas, wish my gramps was alive he could tell me, he had the biggest chicken farm in utah 70,000 birds, layers and show birds, he started and sold sold all the egg farms in this state so I wish he were here his knowledge would be great especially since I got his addictions to animals!!!!!!! I hope this is something that can be worked out someday, just like it seems the Bell Blazzing Blizzard might, since it finally happened this year, But I'm new with fatties but good luck to all who try.

With the Araucanas.. Really? I have have never heard that before. I had Araucanas/Ameraucana whatever you want to call them. And I never had any problems hatching them out. No infertile eggs.. No weak babies.. Just cute noisy things that hatched out of blue-green eggs.

 

[Gregg M]

THIS DOESNT PROVE A THING!!

I dont know Pat, it has to prove something... I mean even if the females he had layed half the amount of eggs they should, dont you think that the results are pretty alarming??? And we are talking about a quality breeder here... This has happend to atleast 3 other breeders that I know of...

I also think the supposed double hets might be a false claim as well... This is just my opinion though...

 

[snared99]

I dont know Pat, it has to prove something... I mean even if the females he had layed half the amount of eggs they should, dont you think that the results are pretty alarming??? And we are talking about a quality breeder here... This has happend to atleast 3 other breeders that I know of...

I also think the supposed double hets might be a false claim as well... This is just my opinion though...

I agree with you this means something, but what im not quite sure yet. Im having the same results as the other breeders so far. As of yet this is driving me nuts...lol But i do not beleive it is impossible as of yet. I know for a fact the double hets are not false and do exist. I think people are jumping the gun here a bit. How long did it take to produce a Bell Blazing???? The luck is just not with us.

 

[dprince]

I guess the difference I see between the bell blazing and this is that at least with the bell blazing project, viable offspring were produced, even if it took a little while for the actual bell blazing to appear. Without the breeder coming on here and stating that they had actual double hets, I'm sort of skeptical about it, quite honestly, since the results seem to be the same across the board. I just want to hear it "from the horse's mouth", as it were.

I certainly hope that it's just funky luck, but I'm honestly not sure. Not sure why patternless amels couldn't be produced, but the results seem pretty consistent, which really stinks.

 

[Lecko my Gecko]

ok this is driving me crazy! not sure how many people are actually working on this, but it seems like the majority of nagativity is coming from people that arent even working on the project. yes there have been some problems with this cross but that doesnt mean its impossible! craig has double hets, last yr justin from canada posted pics on here of double hets and the parrents. pat is absolutely right if you breed a het patty to an amel only some of the babies would be double hets, why would the ones that arent het patty not hatch. I admit there is something strange going on here but to say it wont work is just crazy! I for one am trying to stay possitive about this!

just out of curiosity, how many of you that are posting about this are actually working on this project?????

 

[Lecko my Gecko]

once again I dont mean to come off like an A hole, but after a 12 hr day I enjoy reading the posts and see everyones pics but to have everyone pooo pooing a project that they arent even working on just takes all the fun out of the project!

 

[retreat]

once again I dont mean to come off like an A hole, but after a 12 hr day I enjoy reading the posts and see everyones pics but to have everyone pooo pooing a project that they arent even working on just takes all the fun out of the project!

Hey don't worry, i think all this negativitiy should result in more rewarding hatches and render more satisfaction, once you succeed.

 

[cheeseball705]

keep going nick. i hope it is somehting that is able to be worked out and come about i think a patty amel would be awesome and i hope it is a possibility. when it does hatch out and come about it will make all that effort rewarding. plus then we will know for sure it is possible then. good luck to all who are doing the project

 

[Gregg M]

Nick, again, you are no A hole, and no one is poo pooing on the project... I personally know 3 others working on the project with the same results as everyone else... No viable offspring...

Now, if Craig at Urban said he has double hets, this changes things for me... I trust Craigs word... I have spent thousands on Urban animals and delt with Craig alot... Hes a great guy and honest... Never had a single reason to doubt him...

Trust me, I am very much looking foward to seeing patternless amels... Like I said I personally know 3 others who are working on or gave up on the project...

 

[Craig Stewart]

Patternless X Amel - results

Over the past couple of weeks we have received inquires regarding our Patternless X Amel project results. It was brought to my attention that there have been some breeders having difficulty hatching animals out from this cross. For those experiencing these issues we are very sorry to hear this. I know how disappointing it can be when you have everything in place and you can't reach your goal. Unfortunately we do not have an explanation for this as I cannot and will not speak on behalf of other breeders and their results. I can however discuss our own results.

To date we have not experienced any of these issues. In 2005 we produced our first double het (patternless x amel) offspring and in 2007/2008 we produced our first offspring from those double hets. Unfortunately the odds were not in our favor and we did not produce a patternless amel but we did produced amel poss het patternless and patternless possible het amel. As most of you are aware the odds of the patternless amel are 1 in 16 so we can hardly wait to see one emerge from the egg. We are confident that it is only a matter of time. I have been asked if we have a different line of amel from everyone else but I can't be certain of this. I can say that we have a very, very diverse group of patternless that is represented by well over a half dozen different wild-caught lineages. I wish I had the answer for all of this but unfortunately I do not. I hope my post does not come across as an attempt at prompting our animals or techniques as being better than anyone else’s because for those that know me personally I simply do not operate that way. I am truly perplexed by the results some of you are experiencing and can appreciate your frustration. I was asked by a few individuals to come on here and share our results and I look forward to the day when we can post an actual patternless amel. Hopefully this will be the year we see it emerge from the egg. Should anyone have any questions regarding this post please feel free to contact me personally at 905 264-5557.


I have attached some photos of a couple cool morphs that we hatched out in 2008. One of them we’ve coined the clown, the other is a ghost (gorgeous lavender coloration) and last but not least is our proven line of axanthics. This is a recessive mutation that we are looking forward to crossing into the amels to produce snows. With all these new fat-tailed morphs emerging the potential is unlimited for this gecko. I cannot express how excited we are to be participating in the surge of popularity that this once humble gecko is experiencing. The sky is the limit and we can hardly wait to see what the future holds.

2008 Ghost Male

2008 Ghost Male and Sibling Het Ghost Male

2008 Clown Het Caramel Albino

2008 Axanthic

2008 Axanthic and Het Axanthic

Best regards,

Craig Stewart
The Urban Gecko
Email: [email protected]