First Enigma Pathology Report

[Baoh]

I just addressed that in the other thread with a credible link (National Institute of Health) provided.

I understand the craving for knowledge. It is much of who I am and it is hard to remain patient.

 

[PSGeckos]

Endocrine, Equilibrium, Vestibular or Ocular, surely if we test all of these area's we must get some kind of answers?

Touching on Ocular - When we got the Path report, we thought we'd try the old UV, our Juvi Bell Enigma detested it, he circled and circled became very stressed, so we immediately removed him, however a little Enigma het Bell didn't mind it at all (these are both effected geckos). I will have to try my male Bell under UV, who i got from Kelli who hasn't expressed any symptoms just out of interest to see his reaction.

I have noticed my female Enigma het Bell has put on an awful lot of weight since finishing breeding, I thought she was egg bound at one point, I’m scared about the fatty liver
We have reduced the amount she has to eat, any other advice? I guess if they're predispositioned to it, not much we can do?!

Dependant what is found to be the cause, would you stop breeding this morph if it wasn't something that could be controlled, bred out etc?

 

[KelliH]

I've always thought that fatty liver was not uncommon in captive leopard geckos due to what we feed them and how we supplement them. I would say most of the necropsies I have had done on adult leos show fatty liver. I'm not convinced it's an "Enigma Thing" yet.

It does depend on what causes them to be Enigmas that would be the determining factor for me. If it turns out they have any sort of disorder that shortens their lifespan greatly or causes them any other health problems then yes, I would stop breeding them. :-( As much as I love them and how beautiful I think they are, I wouldn't want to breed the morph if it was something like that.

 

[giantkeeper]

Wow. this is some thread I missed! I have a few Enigmas that can be sent out for testing if it will help.

 

[PSGeckos]

I've always thought that fatty liver was not uncommon in captive leopard geckos due to what we feed them and how we supplement them. I would say most of the necropsies I have had done on adult leos show fatty liver. I'm not convinced it's an "Enigma Thing" yet.

It does depend on what causes them to be Enigmas that would be the determining factor for me. If it turns out they have any sort of disorder that shortens their lifespan greatly or causes them any other health problems then yes, I would stop breeding them. :-( As much as I love them and how beautiful I think they are, I wouldn't want to breed the morph if it was something like that.

We are 100% with you Kelli hope it does not come to this!!!! it would be a great shame

 

[PSGeckos]

Wow. this is some thread I missed! I have a few Enigmas that can be sent out for testing if it will help.

Thats very kind of you :main_thumbsup: your have to talk to Kelli she what she reckons

 

[KelliH]

Wow. this is some thread I missed! I have a few Enigmas that can be sent out for testing if it will help.

Chris-

That is very generous of you to offer, thank you. I sent a good amount (about 12) but I'll see if they need any others.

 

[giantkeeper]

Chris-

That is very generous of you to offer, thank you. I sent a good amount (about 12) but I'll see if they need any others.

If you have anything I can help with, please let me know.

 

[Gregg M]

I've always thought that fatty liver was not uncommon in captive leopard geckos due to what we feed them and how we supplement them. I would say most of the necropsies I have had done on adult leos show fatty liver. I'm not convinced it's an "Enigma Thing" yet.

Kelli,
I agree 100% with you... Thats why I wrote this in an earlier post...

Thank you very much for the rundown. I did not think you were giving "poor husbandry". Infact it looks good by the general husbandry standards. What is the nutritional breakdown of locusts??? Personally, I do not believe in a staple diet of anything for all reptiles including snakes unless ofcorse it is a specialized feeder but it seems to be a common trend for keepers to offer staple diets that consist of meal worms. Did you have any non-Enigmas from your collection tested as well??? By the way, I think what you are doing is great and a huge step in the right direction...

 

[PSGeckos]

Gregg - No we didn't, and i really wish we had, although we only have a very small collection.

 

[Isis]

There is a thing that still bothers me... does anyone actually produced a "super enigma"? Did you ever consider the treat being lethal in homozygous form? If such abnormalities are seen in a heterozygote it could be lethal or at least sublethal if 2 enigma allels meet. Maybe Kelli or somebody else had crossed enigma x enigma- did you see any abnormal proportions of the healthy offspring? The answer could be very useful for anybody wanting to breed enigmas to avoid producing disabled hatchlings or faulty eggs...

 

[PSGeckos]

There is a thing that still bothers me... does anyone actually produced a "super enigma"? Did you ever consider the treat being lethal in homozygous form? If such abnormalities are seen in a heterozygote it could be lethal or at least sublethal if 2 enigma allels meet. Maybe Kelli or somebody else had crossed enigma x enigma- did you see any abnormal proportions of the healthy offspring? The answer could be very useful for anybody wanting to breed enigmas to avoid producing disabled hatchlings or faulty eggs...

We bred Enigma x Enigma, 4 eggs produced before we seperated the adults, all 4 eggs fertile, 2 we born circling, 2 are perfectly healthy thus far.
Very bright orange Bell Enigmas, born almost translucent!

 

[Gregg M]

Could it be a thyroid (calcitonin) issue? Is it possible that we are giving our geckos so much calcium that they're unable to absorb enough magnesium?

Not likely. If there was an over calcification to that point you would see crystalized deposites in the bone as well as the kidneys.