Hatchlings have rubbery legs?

[bman123]

If they were packaged poorly then I would think both of them got hurt if they shipped together. I couldn't see the video posted my iPhone doesn't support flash. If he offered him a refund then he did his part, it's up to the buyer to either return the animals or get a refund and use that money at the vets office..

I'm sorry but if you were in a hurry to get to work then you should of shipped them the next day that you had enough time to properly package them. I don't see anything wrong with people saying what they said about this situation.
It's a damn shame that the animals got hurt in transit because you were in a hurry, maybe you shouldn't sell leos anymore because you obviously don't care about the animals safety..

 

[Keith N]

Funny how you post in the classifieds all the time but dis the site when something doesn't go right.

 

[stkpaintballer]

BSM you have an email waiting and I would like to take you up on that refund whether I must ship them back or not I want to make sure they get the proper care they are needing and would rather not stress them out with another ship but will if its what your needing then thats fine I just want to make sure they make it to a vet either way

 

[justindh1]

It surely looks like that a majority of the 8 legs total show some sign of weakness. If that is so then most of the legs on both geckos must be broken or its MBD. I would think that if the geckos got tossed around so much being shipped and broke several legs then something else would be wrong like possibly a dropped tail or broken neck. I would never ship through USPS but thats me especially if it comes out to be broken legs. Stkpainterballer, I would sure like to hear what that vet your wanting to take it to thinks it is.

 

[Keith N]

Until a vet sees it and makes a report you cant make any judgement that I will agree with you on, But I would be very interested to see what the turnout is as you should be too. I comend you for making it right with the buyer and refunding the money but there are also some things that were not done properly in some peoples eyes and being so negative and defensive may not help with other people that were/are going to purchase from you. You should be insisting that they make it to a vet so the report can make it right if there was nothing wrong with them when they left your place.

 

[BSM]

It doesnt help when someone sends a link of this who was suppose to be buying from me and tell them to go to another breeder as I sell crappy animals. I have been talking to this guy for other a week and he just had to get the money then he got a email with a link to here yesterday and telling him to not trust me and go to another breeder on this site. That right there is un called for and whoever did that should be ashamed of yourself


He is going to make the vet visit and i am refunding money this Monday

 

[justindh1]

I think it is crappy that someone did send a potential buyer that message so quickly and informed them not to buy from you. Someone should know for sure that the person is doing things badly or in a negative mannor before it gets out of hand and a reputation gets hurt.

In one of my post I said that they should contact the seller to inform them and see how they think the best way to resolve this issue is.

With all the info and evidence it sure does look like MBD but they do need to see a vet to know for sure what it is. Theres only one thing with reptiles that goes with the words "Rubbery" and "Legs" so you can understand why people and I would think it is MBD. Broken legs don't typically make things rubbery unless its a shattered leg. Ya people will judge you harshly in the world for just about anything you say or do but if you are sure of yourself then there is no reason to get crazy and go off on people. It is better from others point of view if you handle this in a repsectable mannor. The only person who I don't repsect because of their comments and actions is the one who e-mailed the potential buyer so quickly and said your a bad person without any definite evidence or diagnosis.

 

[gixxer3420]

So a few people left this site, there are so many more people on this site with a lot of information that they/we are all willing to give out. I think the way you are handling this with the posts you are putting up is the wrong way. Good luck I hope this all gets worked out for both parties.

 

[Gregg M]

Here is my take...
From the vid, it is clear that the geckos have MBD... That is not the result of a shipping injury... With young reptiles, it is near impossible to break bones... I have seen many reptiles with MBD and that IS MBD... It is not a bad case and looks as if it is the very start of it...

Now, we all know how the signs of MBD can just pop up... One day the reptile looks fine and the next day the legs look rubbery... We can not say for sure that the seller sent those animals out in that condition...

This condition is easily treatable without the aid of a vet... I do not think a vet visit is in order here...

The seller did indeed do the right thing by offering a refund and did not run off to not be found... The seller obviously can be trusted... The seller should also look into his husbandry a bit... There is obviously a slight lack of calcium supplementation...

Bottom line, the animals could have been shipped out in what looked like good condition... The issue with the legs might not have been apparent when they were boxed up... The seller offered the refund... The right steps were taken on his part so stop the witch hunt before it starts...

 

[Tony C]

I agree with Gregg, just wanted to add one more thing. No names were named until you identified yourself as the seller Bryan, if you wanted to handle things privately why put yourself out there like that? As far as I can tell you are doing the right thing and I would still be comfortable buying from you, just try to cool off and not take things personally. I'm sorry you lost a sale because of this, whoever sent that PM jumped the gun and was out of line in my opinion.

 

[bman123]

I don't think that whoever sent the message to the potential buyer was out of line at all. Personally I would want to know if someone was a good seller or not.

He said that he rushed and clearly didn't package the box correctly, then he said the animals were fine when he shipped them. So if the buyer goes to a vet and it's mbd then what? I would say the seller isn't taking care of his animals if this is mbd, even if it's not mbd I'd say the same thing as he clearly admitted to rushing and not properly packing the box.

I for one would like to know if I was about to buy something from someone with poor shipping habits. You can't really get mad at any of us for saying anything even to the potential buyer. Were just calling it like we see it man.

If I was you I'd be more mad at myself for not shipping safely, then if it is mbd I'd be wondering what I'm not doing right. I hope you don't take this message the wrong way man but if your gonna sell animals they need to be packaged properly.

Put his shoes on your feet and think how you would feel if he sent these animals to you. I don't know if your new to shipping or what but you should take better care when it comes to shipping.

If I bought a animal off someone and it came in pacakaged poorly or with mbd and someone on here knew that the seller done it before and didn't tell me I would be a little mad about it. We have to protect each other on here and if it takes me o send someone a message and point out this thread about you then so be it I will do it.

I've been screwed on bad shipping before and that's why I'm being so anal right now. It's not right to the buyer but more importantly it's wrong o the animals. They didn't ask to be packaged and shipped improperly, just try to take better care of your shippig next time. If you have to wait another day or wait til Monday to ship then wait, I know I wouldn't be mad if I had to wait for the safety of the animals to be shipped to me..

 

[stkpaintballer]

Ok guys the issue has been resolved between us in a very respectful manner and not once did he lose his cool or seem like he did not care about the animals. In no way shape or form did I start this thread to ruin someones name and would like to get that out there right now and to me I feel like this was all a big misunderstanding and I think something went wrong and I do not feel like he was trying to be shady or did anything knowingly. I got ahold of a local vet who is very good with reptiles and will be dropping by his office tomorrow to get his input and see what he thinks needs to be done. Again I feel like BSM made things right with me and there are no hard feelings

 

[bman123]

That's fine but I don't see why your trying to plead your case, you did nothing wrong. On the other hand either the seller sold you animals with mbd or he packaged them incorrectly. In no way shape or form would I try to clear the sellers name. He is clearly at fault and that's not your fault.

Sure he might of made it right by you, but in my eyes this all could of been avoided if it was a shipping error. Don't try to clear the sellers name that's not your responsibility to do. That's something the seller will have to deal with.,

 

[Tony C]

If you're in the business long enough, you will eventually have a problem deal happen. How someone handles the problem deals are what defines a good or bad breeder in my mind. It's easy to be a "good guy" if nothing ever goes wrong, it's a lot harder to swallow your pride and make things right when a problem comes up.

 

[bman123]

That's the difference between me and you Tony c. You can call it how you want but it could of been avoided. Good breeders don't ship reptiles that get injured in transit nor do they sell animals with mbd and that's the bottom line..

 

[Gregg M]

That's fine but I don't see why your trying to plead your case, you did nothing wrong. On the other hand either the seller sold you animals with mbd or he packaged them incorrectly. In no way shape or form would I try to clear the sellers name. He is clearly at fault and that's not your fault.

Sure he might of made it right by you, but in my eyes this all could of been avoided if it was a shipping error. Don't try to clear the sellers name that's not your responsibility to do. That's something the seller will have to deal with.,

You need to cool out and stop trying to keep this going and making it worse than it really is...

How long have you been breeding and shipping reptiles for??? Bad things happen to the best sellers and the most reputable breeders... Everyone messes up eventually... What drives a wedge between good and bad breeders is how they go about handling the issue/problem...

My question is, why would YOU want to try and ruin someones reputation over an issue YOU were never involved in??? An issue the seller resolved properly...

Now, for the last time, stop trying to slag this guys reputation or infractions will be handed out...

 

[Ehatcher]

What drives a wedge between good and bad breeders is how they go about handling the issue/problem...
.

If this thread was a nail, gregg just hit it right on the head.

Personally, seeing how he has handled the situation by staying in contact and offer to refund or whatever it takes to make the deal right, shows class and that he isnt shady.

It would not deter me from doing future business with said Seller. :main_thumbsup:

 

[bman123]

Wow gregg m you've got to be kidding me. This is a forum and everyone can say what they want but when I'm not kissing his keester because he didn't ship properly then that's a issue. This forum is a friggin joke sometimes, do you know that Gregg m??

See the problem with this forum is the mods here try to scare people with points or infractions. A member is suppose to bite his lip and be extremely limited to what they can say but I have seen mods bad mouth a breeder before and that's fine?? Please tell me that.

I'm not gonna bite my lip anymore. I'm tired of it quite frankly. There are some decent people here but there is also some mods here that over exercise their power and take it for granted by saying whatever they want about whoever they want.

Don't delete my message either so other people on this forum can see it so they will understand being a member here is like not being able to talk about stuff while the mods just stomp around and do whatever.

I've seen alot breeders on here kissing and whacking each other off and it's seriously pathetic. Tell me one time gregg m that you've bought something from a big breeder like Bhb or Ralph Davis and it came in with poor packaging and your animals got hurt, please tell me. You can't and you know why because responsible breeders don't do stuff like what happened in this situation.

Honestly when I found this forum I liked it alot but after seeing it get ran like it's a bunch of dictators in charge I go to other forums to find my info. What's the sense of that? Plus I'm gonna at least make this worth it as I'm sure someones gonna go all Vidal Castro on me and start throwing infractions at me.

I'm dead serious leave this post up so people can see how it really is here and what happens when someone keeps it real and tells the truth.

 

[CallDr]

Not trying to stir the pot ( yet it might ) but offering a refund can be good or just covering your tracks. I bought a Leo at a Chain Store that had a regenerated tail and was not told that the animal would never look normal and was charged full retail price.

Yes I took the animal back and they gladly refunded my money but it did not change the fact of how that store did business.

So...... what I see lacking is this whole saga are the facts. Do they in fact have MBD? Does the breeder "in fact" follow the proper husbandry and knowledge to selling Loe's by the "standards" from everyone from the owners of the site to it's moderators and advisors?

There is one fact that bothers me. The seller himself said he was in a hurry and used a smaller box....... to save the Buyer "money" on shipping ( flag #1 ) . Then he said he refused to use UPS ( Flag #2 ) . It's common knowledge that UPS is used by many breeders and while "things happen"....... it was not the shipping but how he packaged them.

Then he claimed without question that MBD was slamming him. But I have read all the posts and the majority say.......they have it. ( flag #3 )

No on here has vouched ( as seen in person and fist hand knowledge ) that the seller is in fact..... a first class breeder. ( flag#4 ).

So..... it's not what I know from reading all this....... but what I don't know. I do know that the seller offered a refund but that does not tell me the facts I would want to know to do business with him.

While some don't agree with bman..... I do. I think the seller is in a position to so called "clear his own name" with the facts and a refund tells me nothing, nor does the assumption without facts clear his name.


The seller has posted in some form of "passing the blame" or used the "refund clause" and did not use this "mishap" with the proper PR for his own business.( flag #5 )

If this thread is locked down without a full report from the Vet then people like me would not consider him to buy from. Sorry....... but the seller created this issue and in my eyes needs to resolve it ( he is a member and uses it to sell ).

I know some of you breeders like sticking together and the hobby and the business is fun. No doubt a lot of passion. But people like bman and myself are the "customers".

So I think what bamn was trying to say is....... are you guys responding as a breeder......or a customer so we feel there is no double standard.

 

[KelliH]

Wow gregg m you've got to be kidding me. This is a forum and everyone can say what they want but when I'm not kissing his keester because he didn't ship properly then that's a issue. This forum is a friggin joke sometimes, do you know that Gregg m??

See the problem with this forum is the mods here try to scare people with points or infractions. A member is suppose to bite his lip and be extremely limited to what they can say but I have seen mods bad mouth a breeder before and that's fine?? Please tell me that.

I'm not gonna bite my lip anymore. I'm tired of it quite frankly. There are some decent people here but there is also some mods here that over exercise their power and take it for granted by saying whatever they want about whoever they want.

Don't delete my message either so other people on this forum can see it so they will understand being a member here is like not being able to talk about stuff while the mods just stomp around and do whatever.

I've seen alot breeders on here kissing and whacking each other off and it's seriously pathetic. Tell me one time gregg m that you've bought something from a big breeder like Bhb or Ralph Davis and it came in with poor packaging and your animals got hurt, please tell me. You can't and you know why because responsible breeders don't do stuff like what happened in this situation.

Honestly when I found this forum I liked it alot but after seeing it get ran like it's a bunch of dictators in charge I go to other forums to find my info. What's the sense of that? Plus I'm gonna at least make this worth it as I'm sure someones gonna go all Vidal Castro on me and start throwing infractions at me.

I'm dead serious leave this post up so people can see how it really is here and what happens when someone keeps it real and tells the truth.

If you don't like it here then please, don't let the door hit you on the way out.