I'm worried about one of my girls...

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I have a pair of Super Snow Rainwater albinos, both het for patternless. The female, Leah, is eggbound with her first clutch! She started ovulating in September, and I put her together with the male, Lazer. I didn't see them breed, so I left them together for about 5 days, and they got along just fine.

A couple of weeks later, I only saw follicles, so I repeated the breeding. A few weeks later, I saw that she was doubled up with follicles, but she was still eating and doing well.

Now, she has 2 full sets of eggs developing... one set I am sure is not fertile. But she is so big with eggs she can hardly move, and has not eaten in almost 3 weeks! She's lost significant weight even with slurry. We went to the vet, and had the 2 slugs asperated by about 1cc each, and got an injection of calcium and oxytocin. If she doesn't pass them by tomorrow, I will give her another injection. If that doesn't work, then she will have to have surgery on Friday to remove the eggs.

In almost 14 years I have only had this happen 3 times, and have never bred any of the females again even though my vet saved their reproductive organs during the surgery and said it should be OK.

I am so worried about Leah. I don't know of any other RWSS's, and especially het for patternless. I would like to see their babies, but I am more concerned about my girl. I feel like I have somehow done an injustice by breeding her, and have done everything this MOGL knows to do in situations likes this.

Thanks for listening...

 

[lillith]

Being the noob I am, I obviously can't offer any decent advice, but I can commiserate and send good vibes Leah's way with intent for a full and speedy recovery.

I don't think you have done an injustice - unless you knew that the genetics involved would increase the likelihood of eggbinding - and as you say there are no other RWSS's het for patternlesses that you are aware of, I don't see any way you could have possibly known this would happen.

Perhaps you can start from scratch with her parents and try for a full sibling with similar genes/phenotype.

I send you virtual hugs from across the interwebs...

You have been so good at comforting all of us newbie (and otherwise) breeders and hobbyists; I hope you'll allow us to try to provide some solace for you as well. As for myself, I'm pulling for everything in this situation to turn out well.

Are oxytocin-induced eggs ever viable, or are they just considered a loss?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Lillith, egg-binding is not really too common. Usually, the eggs are infertile when egg-binding occurs. The female's body will try to re-absorb them, but if they are too fully developed then only a protion of the eggs become 'calcified' rather than absorbed back into the system. When this happens, the soft shell of the infertile eggs become very hard and rough, making it dificult to pass through the oviducts.

Oxytocin is a labor-inducing hormone (similar to pitocin for humans) for mammals. It does not always work with reptiles since they are cold-blooded, and geckos do not have a true uterus. Sometimes oxytocin can actually cause more harm than good by forcing the contractions when the eggs cannot pass anyway.

My little girl has 4 eggs in her right now... 2 infertile and 2 that are fertile. If she lays them, it will be pretty miraculous, and we are hoping that she will be able to pass the 'slugs' to make room to lay the eggs. Quite frankly, the odds are not that great at this point.

Leah is a one-of-a-kind morph, and I do not have the parents. If I lose this gecko, I don't know what I would do...

 

[jakemyster44]

I cant offer any advise, but I wish you and Leah the best of luck. Be sure to keep us posted. Fingers are crossed...

 

[lillith]

Thanks for the info...I figured the oxytocin was to stimulate the reptilian equivalent of "labor". As far as I know pitocin is just the synthetic version of it, right?

I hope the slugs pass and the eggs are ok, but if not, that Mizz Leah is alright when her ordeal is through.

Piping down, now.

 

[fOOlsgOld]

My heart goes out to you Marcia. I pray Leah comes through this with out having to have surgery and you get many more healthy babies from her. I'm sure that if you would have had any indication that this was going to happen that you would have done what you could to prevent it just as I'm sure you will take the best care of her that you possibly can now. Let us know how things go. *HUGS*

 

[Pepper]

Oh no I hope either way everything goes okay with her!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Thanks, everyone. When I got Leah, she was 2 years old and only weighed 38 grams. I've had her for over a year, and got her up to 54 grams, nice and fat, and she finally ovulated. I put her with Lazer, another RWSS het patternless in hopes of producing a Rainwater Patternless Super Snow... the first in history (that I know of). Now, I am feeling like my ambition may cost her her life. I am sick with worry for her.

I don't think anyone can dispute how much I love my geckos. If there was any doubt in my mind about their health and safety, I wouldn't even dream of puting them in harm's way. I feel like I didn't use good judgment. I am only concerned about Leah... I don't care if she ever produces another egg, I just love her and am worried sick about her life.

Sometimes I truly ask myself 'why' I just can't keep these beautiful animals and not feel the need to breed them.

 

[thestack510]

Marcia,

I'm sorry to hear of your troubles. I hope things start looking up for Leah. Leos are pretty resilient creatures. I have faith that you'll do everything in your power to see her through this. You can't predict these things, so try not to feel bad. You're in my thoughts.

 

[fallen_angel]

I'm so sorry that this is happening Marcia, I hope that things will turn out okay for you and her. You'll be in our thoughts!

 

[nwheat]

I'm so sorry to hear about Leah, Marcia!

 

[dprince]

Oh Marcia, you know how much my heart goes out to you about this!! Leah is lucky that you are her owner. Big hugs, my friend.

 

[JordanAng420]

Best wishes from here in S. Florida too... Stay strong, stay positive. You have a great head on your shoulders and a huge heart. And it sounds like you've got a great vet too. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[kyahbean]

Aww, Marcia, don't blame yourself. There's no way you could have known. Just keep a positive mindset and try not to worry yourself into a wreck too much. Tons of hugs and love for you and your little one.

 

[fOOlsgOld]

I'm going to guess you breed them for the same reason I am wanting to get into breeding them (at some point).....

The amazement of seeing just what is going to come out of those eggs. (I'm in mommy mode myself right now) but really the true allure of breeding geckos for me is to see what the little ones will look like when they hatch and to share that with my daughter.

..... just a shot in the dark about WHY you breed them. :main_yes:
You take wonderful care of your babies and nothing you could have done could have prevented this other then NOT breeding and if you had known I'm sure you wouldn't have. Lots of hugs and best wishes to you Marcia!!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Thanks for the support, everyone. I decided not to give Leah the second injection of oxytocin. I am afraid that if I do, and she strains too much to pass the eggs, she will die. She is in serious shape right now, and unless by some miracle she lays her eggs by tomorrow (Thursday) morning I will take her back in to the vet in the afternoon for surgery on Friday. I am not very optomistic about her laying her eggs.

Leah was the very first RWSS to ever hatch in the entire world... produced by Kelli, and then bought by Paul Sage. Kelli had seller's remorse for letting her go, and Paul gave her to me as a gift when he closed the doors on his gecko business last year. This is a very special little girl to me, and at this point I just don't want to lose her!

 

[thestack510]

I hope the best for Leah and you, Marcia. I wish there was somerhing I could do to help. Is the vet Dr. H? From all I've heard Leah will be in good hands, and she couldn't have a better keeper. I wonder if they chuckle up there when I pray for Leos, lol. Take it easy, Marcia. How many species of flying monkeys do you keep MOGL? lol.

 

[malt_geckos]

I hope things turn out ok Marcia.

 

[rubym]

Marcia, I lit a candle for you and for Leah. She is in the most loving hands that she could ever be in. You can't blame yourself. It is natural to want something as beautiful as these little ones are to live on in their off spring. You are one of the most loving and caring breeders that I have ever encountered. You would never do something that you thought was going to harm one of your babies. I hope that everything works out for your little Leah and I will keep her candle burning. HUGS!!!!!!!!

 

[Melissa Nagel]

Worried about Leah

Marcia,
I know you truly love your geckos, and feel responsible
for them in a deep way. Though it's common to beat
ourselves up in sitations like this, especially when we are
really tuned to our animals, sometimes, like you know, we
can't control everything that happens.
Sending prayers, love, and good vibes for a positive outcome
for Leah. Take care. Wishing you the best.

Melissa Nagel