Incompatibilities w/ Bell (Blizzard and Murphy Patternless)

[Ian S.]

I never said one thing about the Bell gene! I've been talking about the Tremper locus this whole time.

Same genetic expression my man.

LOL.... How good of odds do you really think 6.25% are?

 

[Gregg M]

I just dont know what to say anymore... LOL... I guess if you want to take one single breeders bad luck in a project that others had good luck in, thats fine. Seriously, you seem like a smart person but you still have much to learn.(we all do)
I have to say that most of your info in threads as far as basic husbandry and care go are useful and correct but some things are quite shakey at best...

 

[godzillizard]

Same genetic expression my man.

You've got to be kidding me--are you saying that they will express the same because they are both simple recessives? because that's just not how it works. I'm done trying to help.

And Gregg, that was insulting--you should be ashamed of yourself for typing your opinion like that. The way I see it, you toss one more gene in the mix, and the traditional rules can go out the window--just look at Tremper enigma het Raptor bred to Raptor--exactly what odds would you expect from that pairing??? Should I even share what the odds actually are?

 

[Gregg M]

And Gregg, that was insulting--you should be ashamed of yourself for typing your opinion like that.

LOL... Hey, I never stated it as a fact atleast...:main_thumbsup: LOL

You've got to be kidding me--are you saying that they will express the same because they are both simple recessives?

No, I think he means they are albino strains and therefore express themselves the same...

 

[Ian S.]

No, I think he means they are albino strains and therefore express themselves the same...

:stupid:
ROFL! Thank you Gregg (both recessive both albino)
If I may remind you the thread is entitled
Incompatibilities w/ Bell (Blizzard and Murphy Patternless)
I just can't do this anymore :juggle: :jester:

 

[godzillizard]

ROFL! Thank you Gregg (both recessive both albino)

I should have said combine the same. We don't know where any of these loci are in relation to one another...

LOL... Hey, I never stated it as a fact atleast... LOL

I simply stated my hypothesis/deductions, nothing more nothing less, you may have interpreted it like I was stating fact, but that was not my intent. I don't even believe in absolutes.

 

[Ian S.]

I should have said combine the same. We don't know where any of these loci are in relation to one another...

False.... We do know and they all reside on their own loci. There is not a relation between the three strains. If that's what you were implementing and they work the same way.

 

[godzillizard]

That's not what I'm saying--the closer two loci are to one another, the less likely crossover becomes. That's all I'm saying

 

[Baoh]

I finally got to talk with Garrick, he didn't have the 'scientific' info a few of you guys seem to need, but here is what I can tell you: The Tremper locus is closer to the patternless and blizzard locus (more so than LV). It took Garrick well over 100 hatches to produce his first Tremper patternless(from double hets), and he said the odds were even worse for the Tremper blizzard...He had six 1.5 groups of double hets and only produced 4 Blazings from 2 seasons of breeding. If that doesn't tell you that the genes are close on the chromosome, you are kidding yourself. Also, the LV locus and the patternless or blizzard locus are much farther away from each other--the odds are the 1 in 16 you'd expect from a double het breeding...so LV is much farther away from the locus for patternless and the locus for blizzard than the Tremper locus is. Sorry it took me so long, I have been trying to enjoy the last bit of the summer I love Minnesota, but I really don't enjoy the winters here...

If you'd like to post the image of the genetic map or the data file for that graphic representation, I'd be happy to run it by my people for verification. That's a way one could state the above as fact, after all, so you must possess this or a comparable analysis. Otherwise, it would still be opinion.

 

[Gregg M]

If you'd like to post the image of the genetic map or the data file for that graphic representation, I'd be happy to run it by my people for verification. That's a way one could state the above as fact, after all, so you must possess this or a comparable analysis. Otherwise, it would still be opinion.

Baoh,
You, me, and everyone else reading now knows there is no such image or graph. There never will be, but if there was I am pretty certain it would not show anything even close to what Brian is claiming.

That's not what I'm saying--the closer two loci are to one another, the less likely crossover becomes. That's all I'm saying

Linkage refers to genes that are inherited together on the same chromosome. Linkage has to do with the location of the markers on the chromosome - the closer the markers are, the more likely they are to be inherited together.

What you are talking about is complete or partial linkage where the two loci are close enough to link or combine and not allow other gentics inbetween them and not allow for a crossover into offspring. If this were the case in the leo morphs, the odds would be astronomical for getting offspring that expresses both recessive genes.

I see where you are trying to go with this but you are way off IN MY OPINION... LOL

 

[paulh]

I've worked with linked genes in mice.

Godzillizard is right -- the closer two loci are to one another, the less likely crossover becomes. "Less likely" doesn't mean that crossovers are impossible.

I wouldn't go so far as to write that a map for leopard geckos is impossible. It has to start somewhere. Genetic maps in mice and fruit flies started when people noticed that they weren't getting the expected ratios in dihybrid crosses. And then they did the breeding and statistics needed to get a rough measurement of distance.

People are claiming they aren't getting the expected ratios in dihybrid crosses in leopard geckos and are guessing about explanations. In other words, we are still in the brainstorming stage. People have not yet done the necessary breeding and statistics to turn guesses into fact.

 

[paulh]

By the way, chromosomes come in homologous pairs. The loci on one are the same as the loci on the other. In other words, a mutant gene (or its normal alternative) has the same location on both members of the pair of homologous chromosomes. A crossover is when a piece of one member of the pair of chromosomes is swapped with the corresponding piece of the other chromosome.

If we have a gecko that is
---A-b-----
---a-B-----,
it produces ---A-b----- and ---a-B----- sperm (or eggs).Through crossover,
---A-b-----
---a-B-----
becomes
---A-B-----
---a-b-----
These become ---A-B----- and ---a-b----- sperm (or eggs) which combine with another gecko's eggs (or sperm).

Check out meiosis, the process of cell division that produces sperm and egg cells.

 

[Baoh]

Gregg, I would not say there never will be, but it's obvious that there isn't such a map available at present to back up the opinionated claims being made. As such, it's guesswork and opinion at this point. I'm fine with it being stated as guesswork or opinion, which is what it is, but I have to take issue with unsubstantiated claims stating these assertions are facts. I generously offer the benefit of a doubt. Very generously, it seems.

 

[godzillizard]

If you have attempted these crosses or know those who have, please weigh in with your take on what you think might be going on.

This is the last line of the first post in this thread. I did exactly what you asked, (except I was talking about the Tremper strain) and then you guys teamed up on me like I was some dumb kid who was out to spread bad knowledge. You asked for opinions, and then required scientific proof that we all know doesn't exist. My deductions came from more than just Garricks experience, but he's the only one I'm good enough friends with to quote without issue. Why not ask Mr. Tremper and Prehistoric Pets how easy it is to make Tremper Blazings and TPAs from scratch? I am a good guy, and I can't help but feel bashed here, and I would like an apology.

I have to say that most of your info in threads as far as basic husbandry and care go are useful and correct but some things are quite shakey at best...

You have to say your opinion about my theories? it is your opinion, and a very negative one at that. Isn't that a violation of the TOS? It's a low blow that I will not take laying down. If I don't understand someone, I stay away from them, I don't say bad things about them on the biggest/best forum for their favorite things in the world. That's just not cool. These creatures are my life. I'm not here for BS, I'm here to share my joy with people who speak my language. Again, I feel attacked, and I feel that I deserve an apology...

 

[Baoh]

You misunderstand, Brian. I want your opinions, but stated only as opinions, not as anything other than opinions (such as assertions of fact). That's the (enormous) difference. I value your input and I value the proper framing of it just as much.

 

[Baoh]

Also, to be clear, I am apologizing for nothing I have said in this thread.

 

[Ian S.]

Also, to be clear, I am apologizing for nothing I have said in this thread.

x2 :main_rolleyes: If anything IMO once again.... I feel as though you should appologise for your luda information in this thread instead of "well my vet said". The only time lasix should ever be used is during cases of severe impaction.
http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=26558

 

[Ian S.]

dang 15 min is up.... Lasix isn't the first choice for normal cases of impaction either. Only when the casue of impaction is thought to be from kidney or liver failure. Always consult a vet first before administering anything your not sure of.

 

[godzillizard]

I don't want an apology from you guys (Baoh & Ian), I want an apology from Gregg, for the "quite shakey at best" comment. You may have been dismissive and slightly rude, but you guys didn't break the TOS.

 

[Ian S.]

You may have been dismissive and slightly rude, but you guys didn't break the TOS.

ROFL!! Didn't you just do the same thing you want gregg to app. for. OMG! this is so much fun. :laugh4: There goes maturity out the window. Ah ha ha ha!!!
Honestly I think we should get back on topic before we get shut down. Anything regaurding personal matters we should handle through P.M. I do apologise for post #97 that should have been in a private message as well. Sorry godzillizard.