It's a Bird! It's a Plane! It's a GALAXY....

[TokayKeeper]

Jon...

He did. Kelli happened to screenshot him stating that it was a new recessive (the image attached above). Marcia is saying he's deleted that comment though. And I do believe Kelli or Marcia has a another FB screenshot of him apologizing, saying my bad.

 

[Wowoklol]

Not true. The 'new morph' was released in Japan. He also deleted his Facebook post that claimed the Galaxy was "brand new recessive morph that has no snow blood whatsoever in it's genes, I guarantee it". While I am glad a public statement was made to remedy this inaccurate claim, I am disappointed with the public comment, "my bad" after the disclosure. I felt it was flippant and lacked contrition and sincerity.

Where was it posted he "guaranteed" it? I don't remember that. I also dont remember reading he had released any. Just thst the first sales would be in Japan. Here is what was posted on his site. Treading dangerous waters here folks. Surely he has a bit of egg on his face over all of this, but I'm not understanding the piling on.

"06-22-11 - Photo of a hatchling Galaxy. Note the white face, limbs and tail tip that are common to all examples of this new morph. Some have a bright yellow spot on the body. They are not related to the Super Snow complex."

 

[Keith N]

Someone even called him out on his first post of what it was and he was quick to defend it. His website now says on 6-22-11 that is a variation of super snow eclipse/abyssinian. I just find it hard to believe(or maybe not) that you would make sure your paperwork and genetics questions are covered before making a huge spectacle of the situation. I have seen others get ripped for their lack of proof or documents to prove otherwise when they try to introduce "something new" why should he be held no different in our community? Just my opinion

 

[KelliH]

Where was it posted he "guaranteed" it? I don't remember that. I also dont remember reading he had released any. Just thst the first sales would be in Japan. Here is what was posted on his site. Treading dangerous waters here folks. Surely he has a bit of egg on his face over all of this, but I'm not understanding the piling on.

Guaranteed/Assured/Denied it was a Snow/Whatever.

I have no idea if he has released them or not, I hope not. It's not so much piling on as it is a collective frustration of the community and the expression of that. I'll go ahead and admit now that I have reason to be upset on a personal level with Ron about something very hurtful that he said to me once, and the memory of what he said and how bad it made me feel sometimes clouds my judgement when it comes to him.

I agree that it's great that he went ahead and communicated what 99% of us already knew (the GALAXY is a Super Snow Eclipse), but it is a little odd that he had to check his records to figure this out. How could he not know? I just don't understand. But I do accept it.

 

[SFgeckos]

Thanks for clearing it up Chris! I misunderstood when I saw the fb screenshot because it was listed as "an hour ago" (I thought it was a current posting instead of an old posting).

Luckily, most Japanese hobbyists I know also read and speak fluent English so word will travel quickly in their community if anything seems disarrayed. Unfortunately, in our Western society, values such as honesty and truthfulness are not always held in the highest regards- particularly in the reptile hobby. In comparison, in most Eastern cultures, these same traits are highly valued and those who are honest are highly respected.

Jon

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I do believe Kelli or Marcia has a another FB screenshot of him apologizing, saying my bad.

I wouldn't consider it an apology. You can see the "my bad" comment in this post which is a screen shot from Facebook:
http://geckoforums.net/showpost.php?p=654668&postcount=120

Where was it posted he "guaranteed" it? I don't remember that. I also dont remember reading he had released any. Just thst the first sales would be in Japan. Here is what was posted on his site. Treading dangerous waters here folks. Surely he has a bit of egg on his face over all of this, but I'm not understanding the piling on.

It was posted on his Facebook page, but it is now gone. You are correct about not releasing any here in the USA, but it was clearly stated that they were released for Japan, and the full name of the person who is working with them was posted as well. I concede if I am mistaken, but hindsight would have made me take a screen shot of that as well.

How long have you been working with leopard geckos, Ben? Because I remember m-a-n-y years ago reading and hearing statements such as, the 'new' albino morph was a random genetic mutation, only to find out the originals were purchased by the 'creator' of the morph. How about this... The 'giant' is a recessive trait, whereby people clamored and spent tremendous amounts of money on hets, only to find out later that it was really a co-dominant trait. It is claimed in his book that ALL leopard geckos have crypto, which is profoundly inaccurate. Now the Galaxy snafu.

I really don't want to jump on any bandwagon to trash the most influential leopard gecko breeder in the world, and he has always been a great inspiration for me. I just think the community has evolved, or at least evolving, from the craze and expense of the "next new genetic mutation" only to be disappointed and frustrated. If the father of leopard geckos can't get it right, what kind of credibility does it give to other breeders who aren't famous?

 

[robin]

I wouldn't consider it an apology. You can see the "my bad" comment in this post which is a screen shot from Facebook:
http://geckoforums.net/showpost.php?p=654668&postcount=120
It was posted on his Facebook page, but it is now gone. You are correct about not releasing any here in the USA, but it was clearly stated that they were released for Japan, and the full name of the person who is working with them was posted as well. I concede if I am mistaken, but hindsight would have made me take a screen shot of that as well.

How long have you been working with leopard geckos, Ben? Because I remember m-a-n-y years ago reading and hearing statements such as, the 'new' albino morph was a random genetic mutation, only to find out the originals were purchased by the 'creator' of the morph. How about this... The 'giant' is a recessive trait, whereby people clamored and spent tremendous amounts of money on hets, only to find out later that it was really a co-dominant trait. It is claimed in his book that ALL leopard geckos have crypto, which is profoundly inaccurate. Now the Galaxy snafu.

I really don't want to jump on any bandwagon to trash the most influential leopard gecko breeder in the world, and he has always been a great inspiration for me. I just think the community has evolved, or at least evolving, from the craze and expense of the "next new genetic mutation" only to be disappointed and frustrated. If the father of leopard geckos can't get it right, what kind of credibility does it give to other breeders who aren't famous?

you forgot about the abyssinian or however its spelled

 

[SamsonizeMe]

What a pretty baby. =) The clutchmate too.

As for the whole "... double-checked and found a Snow in the mix... my bad."

Yep. Cause you can get Super Snows from having just one Snow (heck even a SS) "in the mix". Fail. It definitely says a LOT about the moral character of someone, when he or she tries to downplay a fiercely defended bold-faced lie into an "uh... oops, hey no big deal though right guys?". And only after said fib is exposed, de facto. Let me give you a real example of what "coming clean" would have been like, while still saving face, being couth, and appealing to peoples' sensibility as gecko lovers.

"Fellow leopard gecko enthusiasts, I feel I must apologize for the hype I have generated surrounding the so-named GALAXY. It was wrong of me to push these Super Snow Eclipses as something completely new, a purely recessive 'holy grail'. They do represent a diligent line-breeding project that has taken a number of years to perfect, and to me this, at the time, seemed like something I had to protect with secrecy and misleading information. While some of the components do happen to be SS and Eclipse, anyone in the know can plainly see that these are not all the traits that contribute to this project. The paradox spots are such an indicator of them being 'something special'. Again I apologize for the misinformation and now realize that it was counter-productive to the community at large. Thank you for reading."

I am pretty new to the hobby but not to research or ethics. I'm pretty sure that when people try to pull this kind of sham in other pursuits, they get booed off the stage and written out of the related history books. Though, I'd have to double-check my er... "knowledge components" on that.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

you forgot about the abyssinian or however its spelled

Yes, I inadvertently left that one out. My bad. LOL!!! (I don't know how to spell it either, and spell check says it's an Eclipse... )

 

[Enigmatic_Reptiles]

(I don't know how to spell it either, and spell check says it's an Eclipse... )

LOL. Amazing what breeding/proving something out will reveal eh.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Amazing what breeding/proving something out will reveal eh.

WOW! What a concept!

 

[Wowoklol]

I wouldn't consider it an apology. You can see the "my bad" comment in this post which is a screen shot from Facebook:
http://geckoforums.net/showpost.php?p=654668&postcount=120
It was posted on his Facebook page, but it is now gone. You are correct about not releasing any here in the USA, but it was clearly stated that they were released for Japan, and the full name of the person who is working with them was posted as well. I concede if I am mistaken, but hindsight would have made me take a screen shot of that as well.

How long have you been working with leopard geckos, Ben? Because I remember m-a-n-y years ago reading and hearing statements such as, the 'new' albino morph was a random genetic mutation, only to find out the originals were purchased by the 'creator' of the morph. How about this... The 'giant' is a recessive trait, whereby people clamored and spent tremendous amounts of money on hets, only to find out later that it was really a co-dominant trait. It is claimed in his book that ALL leopard geckos have crypto, which is profoundly inaccurate. Now the Galaxy snafu.

I really don't want to jump on any bandwagon to trash the most influential leopard gecko breeder in the world, and he has always been a great inspiration for me. I just think the community has evolved, or at least evolving, from the craze and expense of the "next new genetic mutation" only to be disappointed and frustrated. If the father of leopard geckos can't get it right, what kind of credibility does it give to other breeders who aren't famous?

The albino deal doesn't sound any different from the corn snake terrazzo debacle. JMG bought the stock then introduced the morph. Don Soderberg(South Mountain Reptile) spent alot of money not too long ago, to acquire the "Palmetto Corn". Supposedly the worlds first true leucistic corn snake. And he will release it when ready. Hyping it up now, testing it out. So what? This is nothing new and to be expected in the breeding circles I guess. And you are right, I haven't been dealing with geckos all that long. But I've been a "professional" a heck of a lot longer. You shouldn't have to tear someone else down to build yourself up. Inserting words into another individuals mouth in order to sully an individuals reputation(hes done enough of this on his own), is downright criminal. Be careful with those quotation marks is all I was trying to say. Guy screwed up for whatever reason. I'm not going to lose my head over it

 

[Wowoklol]

LOL. Amazing what breeding/proving something out will reveal eh.

Just because its allelic doesn't mean its the same thing. There's obviously a difference between absysinnian and eclipse. Even if it is just a hypo-y effect, there is a difference.
Was he selling "normals het for giant"? That were no larger than a regular gecko?

 

[porkchopp75]

Its a very beautiful gecko Kelli, congrats!

 

[KelliH]

Thanks Brother!

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

You shouldn't have to tear someone else down to build yourself up. Inserting words into another individuals mouth in order to sully an individuals reputation(hes done enough of this on his own), is downright criminal.

Who is trying to build themselves up? Who is inserting words in someone's mouth that were posted publicly? If I'm a criminal for stating FACTS, then get the DA to issue a warrant for my arrest. Do you not think that the 'Godfather of Geckos' should be held accountable for his own claims? Is he not accountable simply because he is who he is? Time to wake up and smell the coffee. NO ONE is that omnipotent.

Was he selling "normals het for giant"? That were no larger than a regular gecko?

Yes! and they had a H-U-G-E pricetag.

 

[SFgeckos]

As I stated many years ago, amongst many things- he is a marketing genius.

I remember seeing this photo years ago and it made my stomach turn. (see link from his website below) Imagine if this was your local "Deathco", would you not be upset at these horrid conditions? I also remember all the outrage it created and when contacted, I believe his response was that the immense amount of fecal matter helped to "scent or provide pheromones" for the females. I had no idea that dirty water, ammonia and uric acid were pleasant to leopard geckos. It is no wonder that products for reptile parasite prevention and deworming were inspired from these conditions. Why, after all these years, is that photo still on his website???

http://www.leopardgecko.com/caging

If I ever keep my geckos in such filthy conditions, I would contact the local animal care and control officers to turn myself in...then line up with shame so that everyone on this forum could slap me in the face.

Jon

 

[TokayKeeper]

I just had a similar phone conversation with someone else on here about that exact photo Jon. Ironic that you posted this.

 

[Kristi23]

Just because its allelic doesn't mean its the same thing. There's obviously a difference between absysinnian and eclipse. Even if it is just a hypo-y effect, there is a difference.
Was he selling "normals het for giant"? That were no larger than a regular gecko?

Many of my eclipse look exactly like (better imo) than the abys. None were purchased from Tremper and none were abys. Tony purchased and test bred abys from Tremper last season. They are just eclipse. Nothing more.

Tremper's reasoning that they were new was the brown spots (not black) and the red veins in the eyes. Most of my eclipse have orange spots with red veins. I'm not out there claiming that it's a new morph.

 

[Wowoklol]

Who is trying to build themselves up? Who is inserting words in someone's mouth that were posted publicly? If I'm a criminal for stating FACTS, then get the DA to issue a warrant for my arrest. Do you not think that the 'Godfather of Geckos' should be held accountable for his own claims? Is he not accountable simply because he is who he is? Time to wake up and smell the coffee. NO ONE is that omnipotent.
Yes! and they had a H-U-G-E pricetag.

Its called using quotation marks. That is indeed putting words into peoples mouths. Did I say you did it? Sigh.