My, what have I here? Any help?

[Veedee]

First, there is a bit of a story. My birthday is coming up, and I had made mention to my fiance about wanting to get into breeding leos as a hobby. They're my favorite geckos, amongst my favorite lizards, and my house was depressingly lacking herpes.

Well, my fiance is a good man, but doesn't realize that an animal for sale at chain pet stores for 20 bucks could possibly be captive bred by others into wonderful colors. While I had been looking around websites and at various breeders, he had been plotting and planning on his own.

He went to the pet store (thankfully not a big chan pet store; it was a small local one) while I was asleep, and awoke me with two adult girl geckos in a fully decorated terrarium. After I got the calci-sand out and explained to him why it was not necessarily the best thing and why I didn't want my geckos in it despite it looking perdy, I pulled out the girls, confirmed their sex, and started looking them over. He told me one had been sold to him as high yellow, and the other was albino. I thanked him and was, in general, overjoyed.

When he went off to work I dashed to the pet store and started grilling them on these two animals. The one they depicted high yellow is a fat girl, and very fond of pinkies. The other, the "albino", needs fattening up. They also said that the "albino" was born out of a clutch bred from Red Stripes. Looking at this girl, I am not sure if I believe it.

Either way, the store assured me that their geckos were all purchased from a private and small breeder in Buffalo, and they did have a very low stock. They had a few babies that I almost bought (I am CERTAIN that there was a mack snow and possibly a Tremper and Bell in that lot), but want to wait til I get more terrariums built.

First, let me start with pics, because I really do love these two. They're absolutely gorgeous, get on well with eachother, and are hilarious when handled. They come out as opposites there: the "high yellow" hates to be held and will squirm and run, but is fine out of hands. The "albino" loves to be held, but I hope you have fast reflexes once you set her down! That's when she starts biting and running. She definitely has a lot of attitude!

Our "High Yellow" girl:

Side and top view

She definitely is a pretty thing n.n

"Oh? Whatcha doin? Taking pictures? Oh well, in that case...

This is my good side."

And the "albino", as well as close up shots of her eyes. Taken in a dark room underneath a very powerful light. She seemed to love that, and stayed nice and still.

Top and side

Profiles

"Fine, I'll sit still for some pictures, but I am going to make them look as dull as I can."

"No, you cannot have the tripod back until you convince me that you are through with this nonsense."

And finally, the eyes:

Apologies for the MASSIVE amount of pics but as you can tell I really do love these two. Taking pics was just too much fun.

My final question: Would it be irresponsible and bad for me to find males for these and breed them, despite not knowing their full background? They DID say that they were from a small private breeder...

Thank you!
Veedee

 

[Tommy13b]

Nice geckos, As long as you have a somewhat understanding of how there genetics work, Food, space, and time, id say go for it. The minimum size for a female to breed is around 50 grams. for males its around 45.

 

[Tommy13b]

BTW looks like your albino is some sort of blizzard to me. mabey someone whos worked with them can confirm it. id say your other ones are high yellows, but it one apears to have a tail kink. it might just be a weird camra angle but if it does have a tilit i wouldent recomend breeding it.

 

[Khrysty]

It wouldn't be unethical to breed them, but if you're selling the offspring as breeders you may want to put a disclaimer on them saying that you are unsure of the genetic background of the parents.

That being said, judging from the eyes on your "albino" and the lack of pattern..I'd say you have a blizzard on your hands.

 

[StatikStepz]

+1 for Blizzard.

Those are Blizzard eyes, not Albino eyes of any strain.

I think it's actually a Blazing Blizzard (an Albino Blizzard), because most Blizzards tend to be a little darker and not so bright white.

So them selling that to you as an "Albino of some sort..." is not too far off, because it very well may be an Albino Blizzard, but deff. not just a Tremper Albino, Bell Albino, or Rainwater Albino.

 

[StatikStepz]

...then again, the 2nd picture of the white gecko does kinda look like it has that classic "Blizzard grey color" on the back and head, so dunno... only way to tell for sure would be to test breed it... if it has an Albino strain in it or not.

 

[Veedee]

@Tommy - That's what I was thinking, a blizzard, but I had never seen one close up and in person. She's pinkish on her sides (almost translucent) and the most solidly white on her back, and I never knew what a Blizz's eyes looked like. Thanks!

As for the tail kink - that orange one is quite expressive with her tail, moreso than the white. She moves it around a lot, lifts it, lays it flat, but I will keep my eyes on it. Right now, its hard to say because of how often she moves that thing.

@Khrysty - I was pretty sure she was not albino, but I wasn't sure exactly what. I've never seen blizz's before, in person (doesn't seem to be a lot of leo people out here in Western NY). Thank you for the help!

@StatikStepz - She is very white, but at the same time, you are right, she does have a bit of grayness to her. She's also the one that the store told me was bred from a red stripe group () so I wonder if they may have been thinking of a different gecko there, or just taking me as a complete fool and trying to get me all excited. I have noticed that she does have a very small amount of yellowish hue, but its super-hard to see on her. Its around her flanks and her legs, just a very little bit.

 

[robin]

She is very white, but at the same time, you are right, she does have a bit of grayness to her. She's also the one that the store told me was bred from a red stripe group () so I wonder if they may have been thinking of a different gecko there, or just taking me as a complete fool and trying to get me all excited. I have noticed that she does have a very small amount of yellowish hue, but its super-hard to see on her. Its around her flanks and her legs, just a very little bit.

possibly she is from from their red stripe group and they had some het blizzards in there. who knows really? you have a couple of beautiful ladies!

you might want to seperate the two since there is such a difference in size in them (the larger one might bully around the smaller one or just eat her food LOL)

 

[herpencounter]

I didn't see it in your post and I am to lazy to read what everybody said lol. But your smaller girl has some stuck shed on her toes that needs to some off.

Any ways, nice girls and good luck!

J.

 

[Veedee]

@Robin - definitely some pretty girls I considered that myself, but my fiance had them both in the same tank when I woke up and they get along really nicely. I've been monitoring them together, and both are eating well. No bullying. However, with larger food stuffs, I do plan to move them into seperate feeders just to make sure the big girl doesn't decide to pig out.

@Herpencounter - Yea, I noticed that as well to take the pictures. However, since they are very new here, and the little girl especially is pretty hyper most times, I am hoping to give her a day or two to calm down before I start trying to extract the shed.

 

[Veedee]

On closer inspection of the high yellow, she does appear to have a bit of a tail kink. I have seen this condition come due to hereditary, and some claim that it happened inside of the egg. Question is, keep her pet only, or test breed her?

 

[Tony C]

I have a kinked tail Jungle (actually my girlfriend's, but I do all the work ), and have decided he will be a pet only due to the kink and his unknown genetic background (he came from a chain store). If you do test breed and get severely deformed hatchlings, are you prepared to put them down? Are you able and willing to keep all the babies if you can't sell them? It may be hard to find buyers for babies without info on their genetics. My suggestion is to get comfortable with their husbandry, do a lot of research on morphs and genetics, and when you feel like you have a solid understanding then start your breeding projects with animals from reputable breeders who can provide you with the info on each animal that you need to make good decisions on how to pair them up. There is no shame in having a pet only gecko.

 

[gitrdone0420]

I have a kinked tail Jungle (actually my girlfriend's, but I do all the work ), and have decided he will be a pet only due to the kink and his unknown genetic background (he came from a chain store). If you do test breed and get severely deformed hatchlings, are you prepared to put them down? Are you able and willing to keep all the babies if you can't sell them? It may be hard to find buyers for babies without info on their genetics. My suggestion is to get comfortable with their husbandry, do a lot of research on morphs and genetics, and when you feel like you have a solid understanding then start your breeding projects with animals from reputable breeders who can provide you with the info on each animal that you need to make good decisions on how to pair them up. There is no shame in having a pet only gecko.

I agree 110%

 

[Veedee]

I have a kinked tail Jungle (actually my girlfriend's, but I do all the work ), and have decided he will be a pet only due to the kink and his unknown genetic background (he came from a chain store). If you do test breed and get severely deformed hatchlings, are you prepared to put them down? Are you able and willing to keep all the babies if you can't sell them? It may be hard to find buyers for babies without info on their genetics. My suggestion is to get comfortable with their husbandry, do a lot of research on morphs and genetics, and when you feel like you have a solid understanding then start your breeding projects with animals from reputable breeders who can provide you with the info on each animal that you need to make good decisions on how to pair them up. There is no shame in having a pet only gecko.

I am picking up very quickly on the bit that I didn't know. I have wanted to breed these guys for a while, but late high school with advanced courses, college, and the Life After College time period got me pretty busy (and poor for a bit haha), and I missed out on the discovery of some morphs. Mostly that's all I need to get in my head: this isn't my first go with herp breeding.

If... IF this is her first breeding, she should produce a very small amount of eggs (watch, I get one of the flukes and she lays 16. Just my luck haha). If it turns out to just be a few leos, and their deformities are not life threatening, then yes, I could very easily keep them around. If they are... well, I grew up on a farm, and I learned at a very young age that it must be done if they are born unwell and unable to live. Putting animals down is always a sad and disappointing affair, but not to the degree of, say, a "city kid". Not quite as much trauma. And I have never heard of a lizard tail kink leading to say, the life threatening deformity of a missing jaw (which I have seen a few times, from very healthy and normal parents with a long tree of completely known lines). Now, I could be wrong, and this could be possible with geckos.

I have a pretty strong amount of reassurance that the high yellow has nothing but normals and high yellows in her line. Its not 100%, but the pet shop assured ME that their breeder assured THEM. Its the blizzard that I worry about with the lines. I do plan to do one test breeding with her with a red stripe, when she is old enough and I have fattened her scrawny butt up some. Shouldn't be hard... she gulped down quite a few crickets today.

 

[robin]

I am picking up very quickly on the bit that I didn't know. I have wanted to breed these guys for a while, but late high school with advanced courses, college, and the Life After College time period got me pretty busy (and poor for a bit haha), and I missed out on the discovery of some morphs. Mostly that's all I need to get in my head: this isn't my first go with herp breeding.

it's ok i was our of leo breeding for like three years i think, maybe four. i had double corneal transplants

you will get caught up, you seem to be doing very well already

 

[thestack510]

Nice Leos. I really like the High Yellow a lot.

 

[element1630]

that brown spot on the blizzards mouth isn't mouth rot is it?

 

[Veedee]

that brown spot on the blizzards mouth isn't mouth rot is it?

I sure hope not... gonna have to see if my old herp vet is in town. Also going to go look really closely at her.

Though she is really... really good at biting, for sure. *whimpers at the thought of changing their water and cleaning the poo for fear of being attacked again*

 

[Veedee]

I talked to my fiance about the issues with the critters. I grabbed the female (got a few good bites for my effort) and began to inspect that spot at the side of her mouth.

It peels up if you get your finger underneath it from the back, and it seems to really hurt her. Its not stuck shed as far as I can tell.

My fiance wants to return both the geckos. Would this be wrong? I called my herp vet from when I was a teen and he has moved to a city about four hours away.

 

[JordanAng420]

You shouldn't feel like you're going to be attacked, especially in this forum. We are all especially good-natured. We get in trouble if we're not. So be loud, and be proud!

I have a female with a tail kink who I am currently test-breeding. I plan on keeping one of the babies, and offering the other for adoption. I'm still not convinced that all "tail kinks and curls" are genetic.