OK, here's the story...

[Northstar Herp]

I'll be as brief as I can. One of my leos pooped in the water dish several weeks ago (I'm sure it's the first time ever, huh?), and the poop had softened up by the time I saw it. It looked like there were small round worms in the water, which I can only assume came from the poop as it sat in the water. So, I got out my kids "microscope" (x10, I think) and checked it out. It sure looks like a worm, and so I assume that the leo has 'em. I started researching, and ended up with - http://www.amazon.com/Understanding...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1268005881&sr=8-1

and an order of panacur from bean farm. They recommended the book.

I've figured out the dosage, have the meds, got a med. syringe with no needle, but it's a little too big to accurately figure the dosing. However, I've been checking out related threads on here, and posted a question about it. Without knowing the whole ugly truth, KellyH said to me to use the liquid stuff I could get from a vet so I could give accurate dosages.

My question, finally, is:

Do I throw away what I've already bought and go through the testing to get vet meds when I know they have them, or do I treat them at all? Is there another option that I haven't thought of?

I'm gonna lean on the collective wisdom of the forum, and do whatever you guys say, now that you have the story.

To recap:

My leos have worms, no health issues, but we worm dogs, cats, cows etc before they exhibit adverse affects. I have little kids who like to handle the leos, and after reading Klingenberg's book, I'm upping my cleaning schedule. My thought was to hit 'em with a treatment a couple of times, and keep up with disinfecting often. I don't want my kids getting hookworms from my lizards, and I know they will get them again, I'm just trying to minimize the damage to my gecks and kids...

Does any of this make sense?

 

[robin]

first off you may have found worms but do you know what kind? thing is that different worms are treated with diffferent medications. even though panacure is used widely as a broad spectrum wormer it may not treat everything and to be honest sometimes an untrained eye can misdiagnose the type of parasite it is. ok so long story short i would get a fecal test done to know exactly what parasite you are dealing with and like kelli said let the dr. give you the meds for a more accurate dosing.

by the way that book is an excellent book! IMO a must have for reptile keepers

 

[Northstar Herp]

first off you may have found worms but do you know what kind? thing is that different worms are treated with diffferent medications. even though panacure is used widely as a broad spectrum wormer it may not treat everything and to be honest sometimes an untrained eye can misdiagnose the type of parasite it is. ok so long story short i would get a fecal test done to know exactly what parasite you are dealing with and like kelli said let the dr. give you the meds for a more accurate dosing.

by the way that book is an excellent book! IMO a must have for reptile keepers

This is the answer I'm anticipating, so I kinda thought it would go that way...

Interesting to me though, for the major parasite players- hookworms, pinworms, roundworms, tapeworms, the treatment is the same dose of the same med. That's the main reason I thought I might be able to get away with it.

The other thing is the hassle of finding a reptile vet around here. I live 2 minutes from NERD, so there has to be one around, unless they do their stuff in house somehow.

Thanks for the reply, Robin.

 

[JordanAng420]

I totally agree with robin, that the gecko needs a fresh fecal sample analyzed. Good for you for being concerned about you and your kids, lots of these parasites can transmit from animal to human and vice versa.

I wouldn't be inclined to believe you are dealing with hookworms, as these are not generally seen by the naked eye, and are rarely, seen in reptiles. It's possible you are seeing roundworms. But to be sure, drop off a fecal sample at a reptile-knowledgable vet and have it analyzed. Make sure your kids DO NOT touch the reptiles until the animal is clear of parasites.

Also, I would definately not treat at home without the direction of a vet. We deal with such small doses in these guys, and it's easy to overdose...which can cause major dehydration and kidney failure in the long run. So have the doc dose it out for you. It shouldn't cost that much. And legally, I am not allowed to give you a dose as a CVT.

This gecko should be dewormed yearly, or twice yearly, to prevent such situations in the future.

 

[acpart]

See if you can find a reptile vet, tell him or her what you bought and see if you can use what you bought so you don't waste it.

Aliza

 

[JordanAng420]

Interesting to me though, for the major parasite players- hookworms, pinworms, roundworms, tapeworms, the treatment is the same dose of the same med.

Not for reptiles. It's compleatly different. First off, tapeworms are treated with Droncit, not Panacur. And they're generally caused by fleas in dogs and cats. I have yet to see a reptile with tapeworms.

We generally use a mix of Flagyl, panacur, and strongid, put together at my practice.

 

[robin]

actually tapeworms are best treated with droncit (unless something new has come out) and some of the old timers use ivermectin (which by the way is very easily overdosed and can be fatal). metronidrozol is another medication to treat amoebiasis, flagellates (which are protozoans) and it is also used to treat some parasites. panacure is definately not the cure all drug

 

[JordanAng420]

How big are these worms you see? Do they look like rice? Or spaghetti?

 

[robin]

How big are these worms you see? Do they look like rice? Or spaghetti?

penne pasta

 

[Northstar Herp]

I totally agree with robin, that the gecko needs a fresh fecal sample analyzed. Good for you for being concerned about you and your kids, lots of these parasites can transmit from animal to human and vice versa.

I wouldn't be inclined to believe you are dealing with hookworms, as these are not generally seen by the naked eye, and are rarely, seen in reptiles. It's possible you are seeing roundworms. But to be sure, drop off a fecal sample at a reptile-knowledgable vet and have it analyzed. Make sure your kids DO NOT touch the reptiles until the animal is clear of parasites.

Also, I would definately not treat at home without the direction of a vet. We deal with such small doses in these guys, and it's easy to overdose...which can cause major dehydration and kidney failure in the long run. So have the doc dose it out for you. It shouldn't cost that much. And legally, I am not allowed to give you a dose as a CVT.

This gecko should be dewormed yearly, or twice yearly, to prevent such situations in the future.

penne pasta

Fusilli, heh heh...

I would say they're about 1/8" long and the diameter of a safety pin, maybe less. When I looked at them in the "micsroscope", they looked very rounded off on both ends. Maia, from net pictures, I was thinking they were roundworms. But who knows, maybe it's something else entirely?

Growing up on the farm, we regularly wormed our own stuff, assuming they had worms but when it came down to it the size of the leos, and the difficulty dosing them made me wonder.

I'm very glad to have you guys (or gals) around to mooch some of your wisdom.

I'll find a reptile vet, and get some fecal tests done. I've been meaning to find one around here anyway, in case something really important happens and I really need one quick.

 

[Gregg M]

We deal with such small doses in these guys, and it's easy to overdose...which can cause major dehydration and kidney failure in the long run. So have the doc dose it out for you. It shouldn't cost that much.

Not to mention that de-worming medications have also proven to cause reproduction/fertility issues when not dosed properly...

 

[Northstar Herp]

Not to mention that de-worming medication have also proven to cause reproduction/fertility issues...

Again, that's why I'm so happy to have you guys around. In my googling around to get general info on it, I came to believe that de-wormers, panacur at least, could be WAY overdosed and not be harmful.

Sometimes google is a dangerous thing...

 

[JordanAng420]

I once had an animal hospitalized for 2 days on fluids because the owner gave 5ml of Panacur for 10 days straight, rather than 0.5ml. If you don't do it every day, and you haven't been trained with the proper dosage equations, it gets a little tricky. Especially with leopard geckos, they have to weighed in grams, not pounds. So then you have to convert the weight properly...so on and so forth.

That's what they pay us for.

 

[Northstar Herp]

I once had an animal hospitalized for 2 days on fluids because the owner gave 5ml of Panacur for 10 days straight, rather than 0.5ml. If you don't do it every day, and you haven't been trained with the proper dosage equations, it gets a little tricky. Especially with leopard geckos, they have to weighed in grams, not pounds. So then you have to convert the weight properly...so on and so forth.

That's what they pay us for.

Well, not that I'm gonna do it now, but here's what I ended up with:

70g male- .035ml
77g female- .0385ml
68g male- .034ml
40g female- .02ml

First, would it have been right? Secondly, that's one of the things that tripped my common sense switch in my little brain. How the @#^$**$# could I possibly dose .02 ml of a hand-cream consistency med?

 

[JordanAng420]

Okay, do you have access to an insulin syringe? Because if you do, then 10 units is equal to 0.1ml. Tear off the needle, and it would convert to

70g m- 4 units
77g f- 4 units
68g m- 3 units
40g f-2 units

I seriously wouldn't recommend administering this medication without first doing a fecal. The veterinarian should be able to give you a bottle that is easy to draw up the meds.

Remember to flick the syringe a bit with your finger to get the air bubbles out.

If you're gonna go ahead and deworm them anyway, then it's usually the once a day for three days, and repeat again in three weeks. But I didn't tell you that.

 

[Northstar Herp]

Okay, do you have access to an insulin syringe? Because if you do, then 10 units is equal to 0.1ml. Tear off the needle, and it would convert to

70g m- 4 units
77g f- 4 units
68g m- 3 units
40g f-2 units

I seriously wouldn't recommend administering this medication without first doing a fecal. The veterinarian should be able to give you a bottle that is easy to draw up the meds.

Remember to flick the syringe a bit with your finger to get the air bubbles out.

If you're gonna go ahead and deworm them anyway, then it's usually the once a day for three days, and repeat again in three weeks. But I didn't tell you that.

Nono, I'm not gonna do it, I'm just wondering for my curiosities sake, if it would have been right.

 

[Chevalrose]

Sorry for piggy-backing, but I'm considering getting a gecko...do they have these types of parasites often/are other pets or people susceptible?

 

[Shera]

Sorry for piggy-backing, but I'm considering getting a gecko...do they have these types of parasites often/are other pets or people susceptible?

Yes and yes.

 

[robin]

Sorry for piggy-backing, but I'm considering getting a gecko...do they have these types of parasites often/are other pets or people susceptible?

the only time my animals ever had parasites is when dealing with WC animals. i have had no problems with captive bred animals. as far as zoonose we are just as susceptible as with any other animal (dog, cat, etc.)

 

[Northstar Herp]

the only time my animals ever had parasites is when dealing with WC animals. i have had no problems with captive bred animals. as far as zoonose we are just as susceptible as with any other animal (dog, cat, etc.)

I'm getting a fecal test done today, so yah for me...

I can't imagine that there's any greater danger from reptiles than there is from cats or dogs, so +1 with Robin.

Which leads me to my next question that I've been thinking about for a few days:

I've NEVER been wormed. What makes us think that dogs, cats and geckos can have parasites without symptoms but yet we can't? Seems to me the odds are most of us are carrying something...