The Giant Debate???

[Golden Gate Geckos]

so how much proof do i need to show what i am working with?

The 'proof' is doing exactly what you are doing! Proving out the genetics of the morph. Written statistical data would even be better... not very many breeders do that.

 

[nevinm]

thank you for that marcia. i do keep written data, just not on the things i didnt know would be under fire. and thank you for atleast acknowladging i am doing this. this year will be differant. even if i dissprove this morph, i can promis this fallowing year will be differant.

 

[eric]

Paco: Hypothetical If you produced something and claimed the genetics and were wrong after charging an ungodly amount of money, do you honestly think people would trust your findings on anything else you produce. So why defend the mistake and give credit where credit is do to the people refining the project! And don't be so damn defensive toward the creator.

People like Nevin that are trying to resurrect the "giants" name won't get the credit they deserve because of people like you who want to defend the creator with "he made a mistake" all is forgiven. who gets the credit? The creator! What proof you might ask do I have look at the Bell Albino. The creator discovered the Bell did nothing for it and probably would have done nothing but run it into the ground. But another party jumped in and started to refine the bell to what we no today! Did they get the credit the deserve from all that they did? Not enough in my opinion. But we always go back to the so called creator don't we!

 

[SaSobek]

Paco: Hypothetical If you produced something and claimed the genetics and were wrong after charging an ungodly amount of money, do you honestly think people would trust your findings on anything else you produce. So why defend the mistake and give credit where credit is do to the people refining the project! And don't be so damn defensive toward the creator.

People like Nevin that are trying to resurrect the "giants" name won't get the credit they deserve because of people like you who want to defend the creator with "he made a mistake" all is forgiven. who gets the credit? The creator! What proof you might ask do I have look at the Bell Albino. The creator discovered the Bell did nothing for it and probably would have done nothing but run it into the ground. But another party jumped in and started to refine the bell to what we no today! Did they get the credit the deserve from all that they did? Not enough in my opinion. But we always go back to the so called creator don't we!

Inless you have something to say about the genetics of "giants" that can disprove it i think its best that you shut your mouth on the subject. you are doing nothing in this thread other then Bashing Ron Tremper for something that is Ethical in YOUR oppinion.

I cant believe that the Modes of this forom let this go on. ohh wait yes i can. cause its about Ron.

I think the modes need to step up and do there job. the threads that Eric is posting have nothing to do geneticaly with the matter at hand. In less i see some pictures or date, that has been collected on the matter post it, prove what has been said wrong.

IMO it is wrong of this forum to let this go on ethicaly but what do I know. :main_thumbsup:

 

[SaSobek]

Every morph ever made was not perfected by the person that founded it. Smaller breeders with a love for the geckos did the work. its the way it has been and always will be.

IMO the enigma can be thought of as mislabled as the giant. but i dont see you saying anything about that Eric.

big breeders make the weird new stuff and then the small breeders prove what it is how it works and make it better. nevnm is takeing alot of time to prove this and you cant give him one good reason that it isnt what the breeder said it was. IMO we need more people like Nevnm proving or dispoveing what every thing is and how it works and can it be better, with proof to back up what they did.

but hey lets has another bash Ron thread, he only is the reason that the leopard gecko is such a hugely popular reptile in the trade, you might not like him but at least give him that.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I cant believe that the Modes of this forom let this go on. ohh wait yes i can. cause its about Ron. I think the modes need to step up and do there job.

OK. I am taking your advise and stepping up to to my job. Thank you for telling me how and what I should be doing! Since apparently my friendly reminder posted here on this thread wasn't enough, I am now closing this thread, and will start issuing warnings. I guess we'll be seeing some of you in a few weeks after your '3rd Strike Suspension" :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Soooo... is it safe now to re-open the thread now? Can we all play nice and control our tempers?

 

[SaSobek]

as long as it stays on genetics and not ethics we have a different spoy here for ethics

yes

 

[KelliH]

I cant believe that the Modes of this forom let this go on. ohh wait yes i can. cause its about Ron.

Do you really think the mods sit around on GeckoForums all day long, waiting for members who can't seem to follow simple rules to screw up? Did you stop and think that maybe the issue was being discussed amongst the mods before a final decision was made? Maybe you should stop being so judgemental and think about what hard work actually goes into running a website like this one and moderating it. Geez!

 

[nevinm]

so are there any rebuttles to what has been said so far?

 

[KelliH]

And by the way, the issue is still being discussed and action will be taken once myself and the rest of the staff make a decision on how to proceed. Thank you.

 

[KelliH]

One more thing... LOL... myself and a few others have had many similar discussions over the years. Here's a link to one but if you poke around the Fauna gecko forum you can find other discussions on the same topic. It's not a new debate.

http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64052&highlight=giant+tremper+subspecies

 

[Paco]

To the Mods I am sorry. It's just that I hate seeing someone being bashed when they can come to their own defense.

It won't happen again. Threads some times seem to get off topic and emotions start to take over.

Also I love a good debate.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

To the Mods I am sorry. It's just that I hate seeing someone being bashed when they can come to their own defense.

Do you mean can't come to their own defense? This is an open website, and anyone can come here and defend themselves. Some just do not care to.

 

[KelliH]

You're right Paco. My wish for this place was that it stay as peaceful as possible. Of course the site has grown beyond anything I could have imagined and with so many passionate people that post here it's bound to happen sometimes.

 

[SaSobek]

thank you kelli for the link. i too hate to see stuff get off topic. sorry for posting what i posted about you guys doing your jobs.

 

[nevinm]

any one? arguement? rebuttle?

 

[SaSobek]

the only thing that I can add is

IMO if a subspecies was used it wasnt the E. Montanus.

 

[KelliH]

thank you kelli for the link. i too hate to see stuff get off topic. sorry for posting what i posted about you guys doing your jobs.

Just please believe me it has nothing to do with Tremper (the reason the thread wasn't closed etc.).

 

[mstidman]

Is this a normal debate?...or did I just happen to read a thread that went a little haywire? I am fairly new to the Leopard Gecko world and have developed a love that borders on the obsessive for these little guys. I was somewhat alarmed by the whole thread, probably because the name always seemed to be respected, from the articles and books I have read. I even went so far as to buy a couple of my babies from the "T" line. I am unfortunately a little confused. I'll love my little guys no matter what, since its not just about where they came from, but their personalities and appeal to me that really matters. It's just sad to see that like in every other social group or club I've seen, even in this one there seems to be so much rivalry and ridicule.

LEOPARD GECKOS 3.9.3 - and 4 incubated eggs
KING SNAKES 1.1
NILE MONITORS (JASMINE AND JJ) 1.1
SAVANNAH MONITORS 1.1
"RED" IGUANA (CITRUS) 1.0
GREEN IGUANAS 1.1 - one named Gus
TRI- COLOR HOGNOSE 1.2
SIDE-WINDER 0.0.1
ALBINO BOA 1.0
RED TAIL BOAS 1.2 - one named Bess
VIPER GECKOS 0.0.2
FIRE SKINK 0.0.1
BEARDED DRAGONS 1.1 - found out the hard way that these guys can be cannibalistic, lost one yesterday
AFRICAN SPUR THIGH (DASHER) 1.0
RED-EARED SLIDER 0.0.2
CHILDREN 5.6
GRANDCHILDREN 3.3.1
POMERANIAN (Lil' Dude) 1.0
MIN. PIT MIX (Ratchet) 1.0