The Giant Debate???

[nevinm]

i think my biggest gecko in 2000 was a 70 gram male that was 2 years old....

 

[Mel&Keith]

I hate arguing so I've avoided this thread but hopefully the arguing is over....*fingers crossed*.

Nevin, what does it seem like your percentages have been from Giant to Normal breedings? (Sorry if I missed your answer pages ago)

We've been working on Giant projects about as long as you have and have noticed pretty darn close to a 50/50 Giant to Normal offspring split. Just from what I've observed with our Giants, I can understand how it looks co-dominant. This past season was our first year to breed a Super Giant to a Normal and we got all Giant looking geckos from the pairing.

I'm just curious to know what people's actual breeding results have been.

 

[nevinm]

my only argument to this entire thing, and im sure there will be a rebuttle, is there is so much regularety and not much veriance. this is all ofcourse coming from my own experiance. and this is also strictly speaking about the hatchlings and i think if there is a standerd it needs to be on the hatchlings. if i breed a so called giant to a giant, the babies are very regular in size and accually seem to fallow what is stated on trempers page. i get about 25% coming out at about 6-8 grams. half of them come out at about 4-5 grams, and the rest are only the normal size babies being about 2 grams. it was kind of wierd last year, that at the begining of the year i paniced because i forgot what a normal size hatchling looked like and when it came out for a second i thought it was going to die!

mel, that is what i said on the second page. but all my finds are amizingly the same. its oddly enough just like you said. i get about 50/50 from "giant" to normal. 50/50 from a "super giant" to "giant". all giants from a "super giant" to a normal. and this has been my findings from the beging. again these are my findings, not me looking for what i want.

 

[Mel&Keith]

Sorry, for missing that post originally and thank you for quoting it for me! I've tried to listen to everyone's arguments for why Giants don't work they way they are claimed to but it hasn't followed what we've seen either.

 

[nevinm]

no problem mel. i thought i was going crazy for a second thinking i was the only one with those results!!

 

[Paco]

no problem mel. i thought i was going crazy for a second thinking i was the only one with those results!!

Nevin... My comment about the Ball market earlier was meant to show Leos were not the only market where genetics get miss labeled. As you stated it happens in every aspect of the industry with all kinds of reptiles not just Leos.

On to the next Subject. I contacted Steve of Gecko's ect and told him about the thread. I gave him the basic questions and what the current issues where. He told he me will try and get on and post a few things. But when Caring for 4000 plus Reptiles you get Kinda Busy( I think thats just the leos). So hopefully we can get a few things cleared up soon.

I would have to say that the only person who has breed More Giant's than Mr. "T" would be Steve. He has been working with them since they were introduced. He also produces more Leos than most Breeder's in the Trade. There only might be 2-3 who produce more. So his input should hopefully help a great deal.:main_thumbsup:

 

[Paco]

MODS... Hey Steve of Gecko's ect responded directly to my e-mails. I wanted to get permission to re-post our conversation. I don't want to cause the issue I caused last time Kelli. So I am asking first.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Steve has a user account here on Geckoforums.net. He is more than welcome to come here and post!

 

[Paco]

Steve has a user account here on Geckoforums.net. He is more than welcome to come here and post!

Marcia... I was just trying to make things a little easier for the man. I mean his workload is HUGE enough, just wanted to try and help.

I let him know you guy's aren't letting me repost so hopefully he will do a little cut and paste and get on here to clear some air.

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

My question would be at this point why are we dragging in a man that as Paco would say it has a HUGE workload into the middle of a debate that noone brought him into? Not saying his opinion isn't wanted but why run and find someone to attempt to prove a point.

The way i see it, sure more proof has to be put out there for everyone in the community to see. Some point of views can and will differ from others which makes us all humans and not the animals that we raise.

Let's please keep this a civil as possible cause i really do find this debate interesting and i really don't want it closed again due to well bickering amongst friends or at the very least piers in the trade.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[Retribution Reptiles]

Oh and i forgot "The Truth is out there" I love that line from X-Files, yep i'm a dork.

 

[KelliH]

MODS... Hey Steve of Gecko's ect responded directly to my e-mails. I wanted to get permission to re-post our conversation. I don't want to cause the issue I caused last time Kelli. So I am asking first.

Sorry but 3rd party quotes are frowned upon here. Thanks!

 

[yellermelon]

I would like to add to the discusion. i havent had the experience most on this thread have, but i do love me some..."big geckos" I have a gem snow that I trace the genetics back on and it should have NO tremper blood. It only weights 82 grams, not a HUGE gecko but as far as body proportions go it fits the description to a "T" long, lankey gecko. Now I didnt think anything about this untill I started getting babies last year..I would say 90% where as big or bigger than my "giant" hatchlings, almost all of them had thelong lankey body shape staight out of the egg and held that until they where at least 20 grams or so.. i sold a few of these geckos, but held back quite a few also just to see what would become of this line...I dont have any idea if there is anything to it, or maybe its just a few big geckos..Guess we will see what this year brings.

 

[KelliH]

OK folks... I've given it some thought overnight and have decided not to issue any warnings for remarks made in this thread. I think everyone needed some time to cool off. Consider this an "unofficial" warning however and please show some respect for the website and the TOS. Thanks everybody!

 

[Paco]

My question would be at this point why are we dragging in a man that as Paco would say it has a HUGE workload into the middle of a debate that noone brought him into? Not saying his opinion isn't wanted but why run and find someone to attempt to prove a point.

The way i see it, sure more proof has to be put out there for everyone in the community to see. Some point of views can and will differ from others which makes us all humans and not the animals that we raise.

Let's please keep this a civil as possible cause i really do find this debate interesting and i really don't want it closed again due to well bickering amongst friends or at the very least piers in the trade.

Thanks,

Ryan

Ryan... I am the one that went to Steve to ask for help. So that is on me.

Steve is a Great guy and is willing to help anytime. Also this subjects Greatly effects him because he is one of the Largest producers of Giants in the trade. So I am sure he would want to be included.

I contacted him because as i said before, he is one of the ONLY other persons who has worked with the Giants as long or who has produced more than Mr. "T"

These are the breeders we need to come to the table to help Clear things up.

Otherwise as you have allready seen it written. People just don't seem to want to accept or are hesitant to accept, what the small hobbyist has to say, or that they need more proof.

Would someone comming on and posting who hatches out over 4,000 Leos a year opinion and expertise make a difference. You bet it would, a Huge difference. So hopefully he will still get on and post. He sent some good info in his e-mail.

 

[Gregg M]

I wonder why no one is looking into other types of genetics... Do any of us really believe that gecko morphs are limited to only dominant, co-dominant, incomplete dominant, polygenic, and simple recessive genes???

 

[Paco]

I wonder why no one is looking into other types of genetics... Do any of us really believe that gecko morphs are limited to only dominant, co-dominant, incomplete dominant, polygenic, and simple recessive genes???

Gregg... Don't most people have a hard enough time with the genetics we all ready have. Me included.:main_yes: JK man, that to is another very valid point to consider.

What types of other genetics do we know exist and are sure about? Have these theories been back up by conclusive evidence/trials?

 

[nevinm]

well, im with gregg on that point.

but for what its worth i just wish some of those doubting the giants would just acknowladge the major point matt and myself brought up

 

[SaSobek]

In my posts I have never said what the "giant" thing is. Alberto has been working with this line for along time (actually longer then Steve) Alberto bought the first one ever offered and we still have him.

After Talking with Alberto about this he said the fallowing.

Third party conversation removed

 

[nevinm]

thats all very well said matt. i just dont think its line breed. i do 100% agree that i dont think we will ever prove or disprove. i think all we can do is dibate with those who want to dibate it, and refine the ones we have.