The Giant Debate???

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I tried to get a photo with a ruler, but my gecko was not cooperating... Anyway, I have a male Bell that measures over 10 inches in length and weighs 118 grams. Should I call his offpring 'het' Giants? Or 'possible Giants'? Is HE a Giant?

 

[spykerherps]

I don't clam to now much about giants. I have never owned or bought a "giant". I do like my geckos on the bigger side most of ours range from 70 to 90 grams some are long and lanky. I do know being larger helps the females with reproduction. good size not just weight. kind of like ladies with good child baring hips.

Matt you original said you didn't think it was a hybrid of the montanus. Why? It still could have been crossed with angramainyu. no? the breeder who imported them probable got wc adults of reproductive age and crossed them with mac's those babies could have the size of angru. but the reproductive ability of the macs.just an idea.

 

[Paco]

I tried to get a photo with a ruler, but my gecko was not cooperating... Anyway, I have a male Bell that measures over 10 inches in length and weighs 118 grams. Should I call his offpring 'het' Giants? Or 'possible Giants'? Is HE a Giant?

Marcia... All you have to do his prove him out and post the Data. Thats what everyone wants to see is the data of the breeding and the offspring? provide enough of that you could call it whatever you want.

 

[SaSobek]

I tried to get a photo with a ruler, but my gecko was not cooperating... Anyway, I have a male Bell that measures over 10 inches in length and weighs 118 grams. Should I call his offpring 'het' Giants? Or 'possible Giants'? Is HE a Giant?

no i would call that Fat 10 inches IMO for a male is not a Giant

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

no i would call that Fat 10 inches IMO for a male is not a Giant

Thanks. (BTW, he really isn't that fat... he's just HUGE! LOL!) So, what would you consider to be a Giant?

 

[SaSobek]

left tub Eublepharis macularius fasciolatus (got done breeding about 2 months ago tails are alittle thinner then normal)
center tub Eublepharis macularius afghanicus and 2 "giant line" tremper albinos
right tub Eublepharis macularius montanus (are a wider bodied geckos but not a long gecko)



Right Eublepharis macularius afghanicus
Left Eublepharis macularius montanus
Againt the Albinos are the "giant line"

the reason i saw your male bell is a chubby one marcia is because the giant line albinos in the pics are girls and they are 10" each and 85 grams. they are big for girls but i wouldnt call them "super giants"

 

[spykerherps]

sub species or complete species aside don't you think with all the crosses out there, with breeders say hay this is cool and that one is cool lets cross those together(myself included). wouldn't you think "someone" imported the Mons or angru's and said wow these guys are hugh their cool lets breed them into what we've got and see if we get some big geckos and if we do then call em giants. Who knew. did that someone at that time think that the leopard gecko industry would become so huge that their would be forums dedicated to them and that their would be people caring about classic morphs or pure species or subspecies.

IMO most of the "morphs" today are mutts including the giant. who knows even the enigma could have come about because two certain sub species were crossed. highly unlikely maybe. how else would it just pop up. :main_robin:

 

[SaSobek]

Thanks. (BTW, he really isn't that fat... he's just HUGE! LOL!) So, what would you consider to be a Giant?

hahah ok huge gecko i dont want to call him fat

I ask you this what do you consider a tang?

We would both say to different things. IMO and the same goes for "giants"
that is why they are "giant line" to us and we dont sell them as "giants" because we feel that the way the "giant gean" works it is unfar to say that they are and sell something that might not be what it is.

We have big gecko from the "giant line" but dont sell them as "giants"

to me a "giant" is a monster. Mammoth was a giant and i have yet to see anything as big as him. so i couldnt tell you at what size i think a giant is. :main_thumbsup:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Hmmmm.... OK, so then would you consider a male giant would need to be over 11 inches? 12 inches? It's hard for me to get the right perspective when a giant is compared to an afghan or other pure WT gecko sub-specie. Can somebody show a photo of a good sized Tremper male compared to a giant?

 

[nevinm]

Thanks. (BTW, he really isn't that fat... he's just HUGE! LOL!) So, what would you consider to be a Giant?

how big was he when hatched? how long? how much did he wiegh? how old is he? how long did it take him to get that big? you just may very well have your own strain to giant if not a dicedant from the T giant gene. who knows? this is what i plan on proving.....

 

[SaSobek]

sub species or complete species aside don't you think with all the crosses out there, with breeders say hay this is cool and that one is cool lets cross those together(myself included). wouldn't you think "someone" imported the Mons or angru's and said wow these guys are hugh their cool lets breed them into what we've got and see if we get some big geckos and if we do then call em giants. Who knew. did that someone at that time think that the leopard gecko industry would become so huge that their would be forums dedicated to them and that their would be people caring about classic morphs or pure species or subspecies.

IMO most of the "morphs" today are mutts including the giant. who knows even the enigma could have come about because two certain sub species were crossed. highly unlikely maybe. how else would it just pop up. :main_robin:

only a handful of peopel in the world have the Eublepharis angramainyu they are big. but if the maker of the "giant" said he didnt use it. i cant say that he did. i know there are stories of him importing "things" into the US. it could have just poped out of his geckso as well. IMO we will never know the truth so i think we should just work with what we got.

kinda like the Enigmas we might never know the truth about them but it wont stop us from working with them. IMO

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

I ask you this what do you consider a tang?

We would both say to different things. IMO and the same goes for "giants"
that is why they are "giant line" to us and we dont sell them as "giants" because we feel that the way the "giant gean" works it is unfar to say that they are and sell something that might not be what it is.

Unless someone is colorblind, I think most of us can easily recognize a tang as a tang. I guess my question is, how can we 'visually' determine what the difference is between a 'giant' and just a huge gecko? If there are genetic differences, what criteria do we have to make the differential?

edit: I'm not trying to be argumentive... I just want to learn.

 

[SaSobek]

Hmmmm.... OK, so then would you consider a male giant would need to be over 11 inches? 12 inches? It's hard for me to get the right perspective when a giant is compared to an afghan or other pure WT gecko sub-specie. Can somebody show a photo of a good sized Tremper male compared to a giant?

I think most trempers now are bigger they were when the first came out cause alot of geckos have been crossed into the "giant line"

you would need an old Tremper to see the real differance

i do know this the Banded "Giants" for the most part are bigger then any of the ones that have different morph added to it. IMO thats why i think Mammoth is the key to figureing this out. as being a brother to Moose he was a big one before anything was added to it. he got 135 right now im growing babies of his that are him crossed back to his daughters. and they are out growing the geckos that were born around the same time.

 

[SaSobek]

Unless someone is colorblind, I think most of us can easily recognize a tang as a tang. I guess my question is, how can we 'visually' determine what the difference is between a 'giant' and just a huge gecko? If there are genetic differences, what criteria do we have to make the differential?

Marcia what im saying is that there are different grades if you will of tangs. the same is true of "Giants". also the giant thing can be affected by out side effects such as how much you feed them temp cage space if they are put in with other geckos and stress. you can have a gecko that should get huge stay smaller due to these outside factors.

 

[SaSobek]

edit: I'm not trying to be argumentive... I just want to learn.

im trying to tell you every thing that i know

 

[SaSobek]

"Giants" are falling into that "classic" cadagory

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

"Giants" are falling into that "classic" cadagory

LOL, I said that in an earlier post:

There may be some real giants left out there, and if they exist, then they would qualify as a 'Classic' morph that should be preserved and actually tested to prove out.

CLASSICS ROCK!

 

[nevinm]

marcia, can you look at my last post?

 

[spykerherps]

IMO we will never know the truth so i think we should just work with what we got.

kinda like the Enigmas we might never know the truth about them but it wont stop us from working with them. IMO

Here here!!

:thinking:Nobody here has access to a lab. we could run some tests

:main_robinNA:main_robin:

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

marcia, can you look at my last post?

how big was he when hatched? how long? how much did he wiegh? how old is he? how long did it take him to get that big? you just may very well have your own strain to giant if not a dicedant from the T giant gene. who knows? this is what i plan on proving.....

Nevin, I got him from Kelli as a proven adult male. He is over 3 years old, and was pretty big when I got him... around 75 grams. He has grown tremendously since I got him... but my geckos are pretty B-I-G. I do not believe he is a 'giant' (but then again, I am not 100% certain there ARE true genetic giants).

What I would like to get out of all of you in this thread is information that will help me be 'on-board' that: 1.) there really ARE genetic giants, and 2.) understand just exactly what defines a 'giant'.