A SIM quick fix.

[Neill]

So I thought of another possibility with the hovabator. Flip it upside down. Let the waffer control that sticks out hang over the side of table chair or anything of that nature and now you have a bottom heating incubator! I haven't tried it but figured there is another idea.

 

[JordanAng420]

So I thought of another possibility with the hovabator. Flip it upside down. Let the waffer control that sticks out hang over the side of table chair or anything of that nature and now you have a bottom heating incubator! I haven't tried it but figured there is another idea.

THat's a really, REALLY good idea.

 

[paulnj]

you would need a flat barrier between the heat coil and your container. I am thinking of converting one of my many hovas people gave me into bottom heat to prove my point .

Physics everyone ;-)

 

[robin]

you would need a flat barrier between the heat coil and your container. I am thinking of converting one of my many hovas people gave me into bottom heat to prove my point .

Physics everyone ;-)

paul since you know a lot about physics and science. why will the hobavator incubate deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes etc. in all kinds of mediums from vermiculite to super hatch without fail but the SIM can't? i mean in all instances in which you are using a hobavator the heat is at the top or why is there such a difference?

 

[Gregg M]

paul since you know a lot about physics and science. why will the hobavator incubate deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes etc. in all kinds of mediums from vermiculite to super hatch without fail but the SIM can't? i mean in all instances in which you are using a hobavator the heat is at the top or why is there such a difference?

First of all you can not say that eggs in deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes, in a Hovabator always hatch without fail... There are reasons why people move to better incubators other than wanting a better looking incubator Robin... You know this and I know this...

Now, the difference is is that in deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes etc, the eggs ar sitting inside the damp substrate... The eggs are taking on humidity even if they do not need it...

In the SIM, the eggs will take what they need, not what is being forced on the...

Inside the Hovabater, the radiant heat from the top is drying out the air in the egg chamber... This is doing this because the temperature is cooler in the substrate and hotter in the air... This will keep the humidity level at the surface of the substrate and not in the egg chamber...

The same happens in all containers in the Hovabator but it is no big deal that this happens in a container where the eggs are half burried in the substrate...

When out of a Hovabator the SIM works perfectly...
THE ONLY ISSUES WE HAVE SEEN ARE FROM SINS BEING USED IN THE HOVABATOR!!!
It is not the SIM that needs to be fixed... Reptile eggs should not really be cooked in a 40 dollar bird incubator... However, we want to see EVERYONE succeed and hatch eggs so we are doing what needs to be done to fix the issue...

I hope this clears things up... This is simple science and only a google check away...:main_thumbsup:

 

[KelliH]

To be fair, I had excellent hatch rates incubating leopard gecko eggs in a Hovabator. I don't think they are bad at all for the price. Never had an issue with eggs going bad in them is what I am trying to say. Incubating leopard gecko eggs is not rocket science. I used to incubate them in a shelf in a closet, and had great hatch rates doing that as well! But how about we get this thread back on topic shall we? The SIM container.

 

[KelliH]

By the way I am in no mood today to deal with arguments about the merits or lack thereof regarding Hovabators, so let's just drop that particular topic as it's beaten into the ground here enough lately. Thanks for understanding.

 

[robin]

It is not the SIM that needs to be fixed... Reptile eggs should not really be cooked in a 40 dollar bird incubator... However, we want to see EVERYONE succeed and hatch eggs so we are doing what needs to be done to fix the issue...

gregg, all i did was ask paul a valid question

thanks again gregg.

kelli, i am trying to understand the science of the SIM better whether it be in a bottom heated, back heated or overhead heated incubator. the concept seems simple enough i just can't understand why some incubators make a whole bunch of a difference. could it be because of the suspension of the eggs? since naturally eggs would be buried or adhered to something. i am wondering if eggs in incubators that are back heated will see some of the same problems as is being seen in the top heated incubators. it would be interesting to see data from back heated incubators or customers that are using back heat to post their results. i am thinking of purchasing one to use in one of our incubators. i am also interested in different mediums and water amounts, also temp control inside of the sim container. since i am thinking of purchasing one of these i want to know as much information as i can prior to my purchase

 

[KelliH]

I understand Robin and I actually am interested to see what the answer to that question is. I just don't want this to turn into another HOVABATORS SUCK/NO THEY DON'T THEY ARE GREAT thread LOL.

 

[Tony C]

i am wondering if eggs in incubators that are back heated will see some of the same problems as is being seen in the top heated incubators. it would be interesting to see data from back heated incubators or customers that are using back heat to post their results.

Don't the back heated incubators typically have a fan that circulates the air to maintain a fairly even temperature throughout?

 

[robin]

Don't the back heated incubators typically have a fan that circulates the air to maintain a fairly even temperature throughout?

i would imagine it depends on the size of the incubator and if it is homemade, if the person chooses to use one. i would think too much airflow (a fan) in a small back heated incubator would tend to dry out eggs but in a larger one be beinificial.

 

[robin]

now that i think about it POSSIBLY a turbfan moder hob might work better with a sim than the normal one. with the turbo fan it would be possibly spreading out the heat more evenly (that way the heat is not beating directly down). just a thought

 

[Tony C]

I thought i saw in another thread that the turbofan hova will not drop under 95 degrees though.

 

[robin]

I thought i saw in another thread that the turbofan hova will not drop under 95 degrees though.

i dont know i never used the ones with fans

 

[Gregg M]

i would think too much airflow (a fan) in a small back heated incubator would tend to dry out eggs but in a larger one be beinificial.

I do not see how this happens is lidded incubation containers... Even if you have a few small holes in the container, it will not be enough to dry out eggs...

Incase anyone missed what I wrote, here it is again...

The difference is, that in deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes etc, the eggs ar sitting inside the damp substrate... The eggs are taking on humidity even if they do not need it...

Inside the Hovabater, the radiant heat from the top is drying out the air in the egg chamber... This is doing this because the temperature is cooler in the damp substrate and hotter in the air... This will keep the humidity level at the surface or under the surface of the substrate and not in the egg chamber...

It is simple science... Even in nature. the ground temp needs to be equal to or warmer than the air in order to turn the water in the ground to gas... There is no natural place on the planet where the ambient air temp is hotter than the earths surface...

Robin, you keep comparing the SIM to other incubation techniques but, truth be told, they are VERY different from eachother and what applies to "classic" incubation methods does not apply to the SIM...

Through some testing without eggs we think we may have solved the issue that we are seeing with hovabators only... If it works, we will include the upgrade for Hovabator users...

Robin, your questions have been answered and if you do not want to take my word for it, do a google search...

 

[robin]

I do not see how this happens is lidded incubation containers... Even if you have a few small holes in the container, it will not be enough to dry out eggs...

Incase anyone missed what I wrote, here it is again...

The difference is, that in deli cups, gladware, and rubbermaid showboxes etc, the eggs ar sitting inside the damp substrate... The eggs are taking on humidity even if they do not need it...

Inside the Hovabater, the radiant heat from the top is drying out the air in the egg chamber... This is doing this because the temperature is cooler in the damp substrate and hotter in the air... This will keep the humidity level at the surface or under the surface of the substrate and not in the egg chamber...

It is simple science... Even in nature. the ground temp needs to be equal to or warmer than the air in order to turn the water in the ground to gas... There is no natural place on the planet where the ambient air temp is hotter than the earths surface...

Robin, you keep comparing the SIM to other incubation techniques but, truth be told, they are VERY different from eachother and what applies to "classic" incubation methods does not apply to the SIM...

Through some testing without eggs we think we may have solved the issue that we are seeing with hovabators only... If it works, we will include the upgrade for Hovabator users...

Robin, your questions have been answered and if you do not want to take my word for it, do a google search...

the the process of the SIM incubation has been used for years in incubating eggs such as green tree python eggs for instance. while the science is NOT new the container is. i only compare the SIM incubation to the deli cup incubation because in another thread Eric lumped them together. now. i will take my time and draw a picture showing you why i think there could be some issues with back heat as well. i would kind of like to know if this will work in my incubator before i buy it. that is why i am asking the questions.

 

[KelliH]

So basically when using a Hova you have to incubate your eggs in a container where the eggs are touching the substrate, as opposed to in a SIM where the eggs are sitting right above the substrate, because the leopard gecko eggs (being small and very soft shelled) need to absorb the moisture from the incubation medium in order not to dry out because it is a couple of degrees warmer at the top half of the SIM container versus the bottom half where the incubation substrate is? I get what you are saying but just wanting to make sure I understand fully.

 

[robin]

ok here is my picture. part of it got cut off but its no biggie you guys will still get the idea.

this thing is with back heat are the eggs closest to the heating element going to dry out because it is so close to the element or are the ones furthest away going to dry about because not enough "ambient" heat is getting to them thus not making it humid enoujgh. this is the side view and this is with no fan. if either of the eggs (the close ones or the ones further away) dry out are we now going to have to install a fan for the SIm ro work correctly in this kind of incubator? ya know so there is a more even air flow and the "ambient" temp is more stable?

 

[paulnj]

OK, I will make one final reply.

I AM NOT TRASHING THE HOVA ...

My understanding of THERMODYNAMICS, SOILS , FILTRATION and EVAPERATION does indeed help me with my job and to comprehend the issues with a SIM / hovabator.

The reason eggs get proper hydration in a (key word) "properly setup" deli cup / hova setup is that the eggs are getting the required liqiud from it's environment which is the substrate in this case . The issue with that is some people oversaturate or undersaturate the substrate at times. The SIM takes that variable out of the incubation equation by letting the egg take in the liquid from the air in all tested incubators other than the hovabator.

The top heat is the issue with the SIM and I have explained it to Gregg already. Gregg , John and I (as a friend) are brain storming with a few others to rectify this issue so EVERYONE can use the SIM. I don't know if it's possible, but I sure am trying.

 

[KelliH]

OK, I will make one final reply.

I AM NOT TRASHING THE HOVA ...

My understanding of THERMODYNAMICS, SOILS , FILTRATION and EVAPERATION does indeed help me with my job and to comprehend the issues with a SIM / hovabator.

The reason eggs get proper hydration in a (key word) "properly setup" deli cup / hova setup is that the eggs are getting the required liqiud from it's environment which is the substrate in this case . The issue with that is some people oversaturate or undersaturate the substrate at times. The SIM takes that variable out of the incubation equation by letting the egg take in the liquid from the air in all tested incubators other than the hovabator.

The top heat is the issue with the SIM and I have explained it to Gregg already. Gregg , John and I (as a friend) are brain storming with a few others to rectify this issue so EVERYONE can use the SIM. I don't know if it's possible, but I sure am trying.

Cool, I bet you guys can figure it out.