A SIM quick fix.

[robin]

I'm honestly not sure what we're asking about here anymore. Are we asking about whether or not the SIM can incubate eggs in the low 80's in any incubator? Are we asking about whether it can incubate eggs at that temperature in a hovobator? Or is there another question? I've totally lost track.

Aliza

i *think* a bit of both LOL

 

[acpart]

i *think* a bit of both LOL

Well in that case, as far as I can make out from all these threads and posts (and my own experience):

"Can the SIM incubate eggs in the low 80's in any incubator?" Yes, as long as the incubator works OK for the SIM in general

"can the SIM incubate eggs at that temperature in a hovobator?" At this point, the answer seems to be "probably not" due to a general problem with SIM's in a hovobator.

We seem to have established so far:

--hobovators work fine for many people
--some people would rather use something different for a variety of reasons
--some of the people that would rather use something different have had good results themselves with the hovobator
--SIM's do not seem to work well with the hobovator
--The SIM/hobovator problem will either get solved eventually or it won't, but there will be other incubator and egg container choices

I assume we will have to agree to disagree about whether the hobovator is philosophically the best choice for reptile eggs.

In all honesty, I don't really think there's much else to say about this topic barring new products or technology.

Aliza

 

[Angel]

ok gregg. i think we get it yet again. i was simply asking question as others in this thread have. totally not trying to aggravate you or step on your toes or anyone elses and you chose to pick me out and address me personally again, still in a cocky way. i am not attacking you gregg. i am trying to figure out why this product is having the troubles it has been and possibly trying to help and maybe asking some questions that others may be wanting to ask but are afraid of because of the possibility of getting talked down to or feeling they may get attacked if they do so. that is all.
i am not the bad guy here gregg nor am i trying to be.

hopefully we can get some good dialog going on about some of the issues and such.

thank you robin im hanging on every thread that talks about the sim trying to figure out what im doing wrong or what i can fix I appreciate you asking these things as I have a thread which mentioned my problems and got talked down to and was told its not the SIM [not that i implied it totally was} I was mearly trying to figure this out its my 1st season and im learning so thank you to anyone who posts on this topic I am very interested to get this to work

 

[robin]

"Can the SIM incubate eggs in the low 80's in any incubator?" Yes, as long as the incubator works OK for the SIM in general

i am wondering with so many people having so many different kinds of incubators (like homemade incubators) if there are going to be any problems with these as well.

"can the SIM incubate eggs at that temperature in a hovobator?" At this point, the answer seems to be "probably not" due to a general problem with SIM's in a hovobator.

i think it could i just think there are some design flaws. i think the extra air space above the eggs may be causing a pocket of air between the top and the eggs thus causing them to dry out. also i think the size of the SIM (and this may be for some other incubators) may be too big.

I assume we will have to agree to disagree about whether the hobovator is philosophically the best choice for reptile eggs.

i do not think it is the best choice but i do not think there is anything wrong with using them. over the years they have hatched out thousands of reptile eggs with sucess. so they can not be all that bad.

i am surprised more testing was not done involving the hobovator and the SIM since so many people use hobovators. People are finding out now after they have already bought their SIM that it won't work with their incubator.

In all honesty, I don't really think there's much else to say about this topic barring new products or technology.

i think some great dialog from all parties could help john and gregg fix some minor flaws. like one big brain storming session, if you will.

 

[KelliH]

thank you robin im hanging on every thread that talks about the sim trying to figure out what im doing wrong or what i can fix I appreciate you asking these things as I have a thread which mentioned my problems and got talked down to and was told its not the SIM [not that i implied it totally was} I was mearly trying to figure this out its my 1st season and im learning so thank you to anyone who posts on this topic I am very interested to get this to work

I am very sorry if you felt talked down to, I am sure the intent was to help but nonetheless we all want to help you here. :main_thumbsup:

 

[robin]

p.s. i think there could be a possible temporary fix for those who already have their sim and are trying to use them in the hobovators. i think that possibly adding more medium thus moving the grate up making eggs closer to the top of the SIM may take that "air pocket" out of the equation and possibly keep the eggs from denting. now i have no idea if this would work. maybe it's something someone might want to try. it might be worth a shot.

 

[KelliH]

The temps are higher in the MR148 at the top than the bottom like most tall incubators also. So cooking at 88 on top gives 85(50/50 male to female in theory) at the bottom. Mine is SET at 91


The lower ambient temps in the hova are the cause of the SIM not getting proper humidity....... END OF STORY.

I think this is where some confusion came in... saying that the lower ambient temps are causing the SIM not reaching proper humidity levels in a hovabator. Therefore, it might cause one to think that perhaps a SIM cannot reach the proper humidity level at ANY lower temps.

 

[paulnj]

I will do just that Robin... but with a dummy container to see if it fogs up good.

 

[paulnj]

Sorry Kelli. I am quite the intelligent math and science guy, but have trouble explaining myself.

a lower temp surrounding a warmer medium will not produce enough humidity. I won't speculate as to why the hova in my 80.2 degree room (current temp) won't hold a stable 88 degree air temp inside, but that is the case and cause of my lack of condensation in a hovabator/ SIM setup.

 

[robin]

Sorry Kelli. I am quite the intelligent math and science guy, but have trouble explaining myself.

a lower temp surrounding a warmer medium will not produce enough humidity. I won't speculate as to why the hova in my 80.2 degree room (current temp) won't hold a stable 88 degree air temp inside, but that is the case and cause of my lack of condensation in a hovabator/ SIM setup.

have you tried lowering the hova temp to lets say 82?

 

[paulnj]

82 IT IS ROBIN..... but I highly doubt it'll work and the grid is now less than an inch from the top and the SIM is filled with a soup of coco fiber and perlite

Once I get another reptile specific incubator, my hovas are going into storage until I breed my owls. SHHHH

 

[KelliH]

Sorry Kelli. I am quite the intelligent math and science guy, but have trouble explaining myself.

a lower temp surrounding a warmer medium will not produce enough humidity. I won't speculate as to why the hova in my 80.2 degree room (current temp) won't hold a stable 88 degree air temp inside, but that is the case and cause of my lack of condensation in a hovabator/ SIM setup.

OK... LOL... you're losing me here. How is the medium inside the SIM container any warmer than the air temperature in the incubator? That can't happen, it's physically impossible isn't it?

 

[paulnj]

MY HOVA cycles on and off and the temps rise and fall. the medium only fluctuates .7 degrees on average every day, but the air inside is usually 1-3 degrees cooler. Air cools faster than a medium will.

nighty night, science class will resume tomorrow . lol

 

[robin]

82 IT IS ROBIN..... but I highly doubt it'll work and the grid is now less than an inch from the top and the SIM is filled with a soup of coco fiber and perlite

Once I get another reptile specific incubator, my hovas are going into storage until I breed my owls. SHHHH

i doubt it will work too, that was my point. i think trying to achieve lower temps using the SIM may be problematic.

the suggestion in my other thread was for incubating at higher temps.

 

[KelliH]

MY HOVA cycles on and off and the temps rise and fall. the medium only fluctuates .7 degrees on average every day, but the air inside is usually 1-3 degrees cooler. Air cools faster than a medium will.

nighty night, science class will resume tomorrow . lol

Honestly Paul, it should make NO difference whatsoever if the temperature in the incubation medium is 2-3 degrees warmer than the air in the Hovabator. The heating element will come back on and eventually warm it back up the 2 degrees.

Are you saying when it's 32 degrees outside and 80 degrees in my house I'm not going to get condensation on my windows? I'm sorry, I just don't understand. My husband is a biology whiz kid and he does not get it either. The fluctuation of just a couple of degrees when the incubator cycles off should not matter. That is going to happen in ANY you use, otherwise our thermostats would stay running all the time, they would never cycle on and off.

 

[paulnj]

The air temps are taken from the bottom of the hova and the container temps taken from the grib in the SIM.

I am done , We have already established that a HOVA does not work well with a SIM, but the HR148 (which is not much better in build/ stability ) works and so do better reptile specific incubators.

 

[Gregg M]

Ok, I have gone through some of the unproductive posts in this thread and deleted them including 2 of my own... This is getting out of control for no reason and we need to stay on topic...

Robin, I am publicly aplogizing to you if you think I was attacking you in any way... Maybe I am taking things a bit personally... How can I not... At any rate, I am sorry...

Please, for the sake of those using the SIM container and those who are considering using the SIM container, lets keep things on topic without the fighting...

 

[Franks_Geckos]

I think it's key here is for everyone to figure out how the SIM fits into their incubation method and report the results to help people who may be able to apply the knowledge to help them. My experiment has begun and I hope to have some information that will be useful within the month. The SIM did not fit in my Little Giant incubator (like a Hovabator but the top is shorter and the heating element is about 47 watts, so I had to make a DIY incubator from a styrofoam "fish shipper" to fit my SIM. I have been using heat pads on the bottom (controlled by a Helix) and putting ceramic tile between the heat pads and SIM to hopefully keep the medium stable. I am keeping the air temp just on top of the SIM as my control point (set at 82) and not monitoring the grid of the SIM. I am using Hatch Rite (right out of the bag) and the moisture droplets are evident all over the sides and lid of the SIM just as it was when I had the SIM in the ambient room temperature. I am optimistic the performance will be as anticipated since I am using bottom heat in the incubator. The Little Giant will be at 87 now (for males) and I will use a more traditional half buried egg approach with Hatch Rite in a Deli Cup. I always keep records of incubation duration anyway, so it will be worth the comparison on a personal level since this is the first year I am trying the SIM or bottom heat in the incubator. If it works noticeably better for me, GREAT! If not, well, I can still use the SIM to incubate Crested Eggs at room temp anyway. I still think the concept behind the SIM is very valid and it should be better in most applications.

 

[acpart]

I posted this in another thread tonight, but I'll put it here so it's with the other SIMiliar posts:

--SIM in reptipro with perlite and tons of water, humidity a bit over 90%, successful "rainforest" and eggs that previously were denting are plumped up

--SIM in reptipro on bottom shelf with hydrated water crystals, humidity a bit under 90%, no rainforest, I'm not sure why. No eggs in here either, I'm setting up in anticipation of leo eggs which I want to incubate at slightly lower temp than the fattie eggs.

Aliza

Aliza

 

[Northstar Herp]

I don't have any eggs in it to see if they are denting, but I have a MR-148 and the SIM is @90% humidity with a lovely moistureness inside. It's on the middle shelf awaiting my leos to get it together...