Curly Tail Leopard Gecko ???

[cat_named_noodles]

Sorry I meant "inside" instead of "instead" but the "edit" button is gone so...

 

[bluevapor]

different colors and patterns are genetic mistakes too. if it doesnt hurt them health wise i say go for it. very pretty geckos!

 

[Crasher_Insane]

While I agree with not breeding geckos who are going to pass on a trait that will lead to health problems, I don't see why this couldn't end up being breed out until there are little to no problems associated with them. Albinism is a 'defect' as any animals born like this in the wild do not last long. I've also seen endless issues with the enigmas such as the circling and head tilting which seems like a neurological defect, yet breeders continue to cross these geckos with others in an attempt to get rid of the problem. I think with a very careful breeding program this could be a new morph. The geckos tails seem plenty fat, and without more knowledge of these animals no one can say for sure what needs to be done. Perhaps you could breed so the tail curls only so much to prevent anything from going wrong.

I will say I am not a breeder and know nothing about breeding or genetics besides the very basics, this is just my opinion on the matter.

 

[Riyo]

Wasn't there somebody that tried this already and most were born without a vent or some sort of intestinal deformity? Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.. I just remember something about "lightening tailed geckos" or something.

Looks cute, but I personally wouldn't do it

 

[STUTFL]

Changes in outward appearance (i.e. color) seem less severe than structural alterations.

Though pigmentation extremes like albinos always made be a bit uncomfortable, too. :tongue3:

 

[cat_named_noodles]

To Edward- Colors and Patterns are random genetic mutations. Different from Genetic Deformities by far (though some deformities are also genetic mutations)...I still see this as a deformity that probably has more going on than just a curly tail. So far as we know, no color/pattern currently bred for has any genetic deformities associated with it.

To Ashley- most all colors of leos (besides normal looking ones) you see in captivity would not survive in the wild, and not just albinos. Any bright colored animal gets picked off. Breeders breed for the wild colors you see today, that's the only reason they exist at all..

 

[stewy84]

Just curious, how old is the oldest visible curly tail, did they gain weight at a normal rate, and what has the hatch rate been when breeding curly to curly? Dosnt seam as bad as geckos with head tilts or spins but im no expert. Just my opinion.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

well the definition of culled can only have a meaning of slaughter. You should choose a different word

This is not correct. Here is a veterinary definition of the term:

Culling The rejection or removal of inferior individuals from breeding. The act of selective breeding. As used in the practice of breeding pedigree cats, this refers to the practice of spaying or neutering a kitten or cat that does not measure up to the show standard (or other standard being applied) for that breed. In no way does culling, as used by responsible breeders, signify the killing of healthy kittens or cats if they fail to meet the applicable standard."

—Carolyn M. Vella, Lorraine M. Shelton, John J. McGonagle, Terry W. Stanglein, Robinson's Genetics for Cat Breeders and Veterinarians, Fourth Edition, page 212​

For more information and examples of 'culling', visit this link:
http://www.answers.com/topic/cull

IMO, the genetic deformity of the 'curly tail' is an undesireable trait. One of the reasons it is undesireable is that leopard geckos have a psuedo-prehensile tail with allows them to hang on to objects, and a curly-tail gecko cannot use it's tail in that fashion.

Although I do not see why a curly-tail gecko cannot live a normal life and provide joy for a pet-only keeper, this trait should NOT be propagated. People who knowingly allow animals to reproduce when they have undesireable genetic deformities are not practicing ethical breeding standards. (This also applies to Enigmas that exhibit severe 'syndrome' problems).

 

[ElapidSVT]

Curled tails, like kinked tails can be caused by excessive inbreeding. There are many other problems that can go along with them. We've only hatched one from a pair that we found out later was too closely related and it looked healthy from the outside but ended up prolapsing it's rectum and intestines. It's not like breeding for color or pattern that can be reproduced when you outcross. The reason this person got so many in the second generation was because they bred the babies (who were probably already too closely related) back to the mother.

this is exactly the reason they should not be given away as pets. culling is the responsibility of the breeder, and should not be put on the shoulders of a newbie that wants a cheap pet. a friend that got a 'special needs' leo just had it die in her hands last week because the breeder didn't have what it takes to cull their own animals. i think that's sad.

 

[DarthGekko]

I agree they should be culled and breeding stopped. Too bad though because the colors on those leos are beautiful

 

[727geckokid]

While I agree with not breeding geckos who are going to pass on a trait that will lead to health problems, I don't see why this couldn't end up being breed out until there are little to no problems associated with them. Albinism is a 'defect' as any animals born like this in the wild do not last long. I've also seen endless issues with the enigmas such as the circling and head tilting which seems like a neurological defect, yet breeders continue to cross these geckos with others in an attempt to get rid of the problem. .

I understand what you are saying about enigmas and People Outcrossing them to Try and get rid of all their "Behaviours" But this Person Is not trying to outcross the curly Tail.. They are trying to Breed to More curly tails in hopes to (And I Quote)

"Hopefully next year I can prove this amazing new morph, while most of the LG breeder focusing on colour and pattern, maybe this "Curly Tail" could be the new kick out morph. "

There is a Difference between Breeding the Enigmas to Get rid of all the "Defects" and Breeding to reach a goal of reproducing more "defected" animals..

 

[JordanAng420]

I understand what you are saying about enigmas and People Outcrossing them to Try and get rid of all their "Behaviours" But this Person Is not trying to outcross the curly Tail.. They are trying to Breed to More curly tails in hopes to (And I Quote)

"Hopefully next year I can prove this amazing new morph, while most of the LG breeder focusing on colour and pattern, maybe this "Curly Tail" could be the new kick out morph. "

There is a Difference between Breeding the Enigmas to Get rid of all the "Defects" and Breeding to reach a goal of reproducing more "defected" animals..

Well said

 

[cat_named_noodles]

I understand what you are saying about enigmas and People Outcrossing them to Try and get rid of all their "Behaviours" But this Person Is not trying to outcross the curly Tail.. They are trying to Breed to More curly tails in hopes to (And I Quote)

"Hopefully next year I can prove this amazing new morph, while most of the LG breeder focusing on colour and pattern, maybe this "Curly Tail" could be the new kick out morph. "

There is a Difference between Breeding the Enigmas to Get rid of all the "Defects" and Breeding to reach a goal of reproducing more "defected" animals..

Exactly. :main_thumbsup:

 

[willyg]

There are so many contradiction, which I already have know that this is what the people gonna think.

I didn't know which one is true or wrong on what I'm doing now, I'm just sharing my experience, which I didn't expect.

But since my passion and love about reptiles is more than anything, I'll do my best to create something new, "not forgetting not to harm them".

 

[LizMarie]

While I understand that this trait is a defect and not desirable.. I still think they're cute.

 

[Tommy13b]

I understand what you are saying about enigmas and People Outcrossing them to Try and get rid of all their "Behaviours" But this Person Is not trying to outcross the curly Tail.. They are trying to Breed to More curly tails in hopes to (And I Quote)

"Hopefully next year I can prove this amazing new morph, while most of the LG breeder focusing on colour and pattern, maybe this "Curly Tail" could be the new kick out morph. "

There is a Difference between Breeding the Enigmas to Get rid of all the "Defects" and Breeding to reach a goal of reproducing more "defected" animals..

Enigma syndrem dosent nessecarly cause problems, they usually grow out of it but for these curly tail's, well they could have some real issues if continued to be bred.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

There is a Difference between Breeding the Enigmas to Get rid of all the "Defects" and Breeding to reach a goal of reproducing more "defected" animals..

I like this philosophy!

 

[cat_named_noodles]

willyg- I like your leos, they are cute, and the color on them is beautiful. I feel you are making the right decision not to breed for curly tails anymore. I am sure you can find good, non-breeding homes for those leos as well.

 

[justindh1]

I can see why people are thinking that this gecko could have underlying problems but i also could see it being perfectly fine. Its just the tail thats curled and it could be that its just that and nothing else. From what i know there arn't any vitals in the tail and i'm pretty positive about that. If it was farther up and affected the digestive track and defecation then ya its a big problem. It needs to be studied to be for sure that it doesn't affect fat storage or anything else.

To me it seems that people are biased on "genetic defaults"! Look at the enigma and its problems that it had and is still having, the circling and other problems. It may not be as bad now but they still have issues and as we all have heard its probably not going to be bred out. Theres always going to be some offspring that will have the enigma syndrome. It had problems for sure from the beginning but most people didn't care that it was releases too too early because of its looks and morph inhancing abilities.

It seems like that its okay to have a geckos with circling and other problems but its not okay to have a curl in the tail. Sounds alittle off to me! Lets try to keep all of the morals and ethics consistant and not go back and forth for our benefit.

 

[Stitchex]

It seems like that its okay to have a geckos with circling and other problems but its not okay to have a curl in the tail. Sounds alittle off to me! Lets try to keep all of the morals and ethics consistant and not go back and forth for our benefit.

Justin, breeders are outcrossing Enigmas to reduce the problems they carry. Doesn't sound like they believe the problems are "okay" to keep. I find that some breeders even cull(vet term) Enigmas from breeding projects if they are experiencing severe symptoms. Just my opinion