Enigma Morph Questions?

[malt_geckos]

I think that it is entirely possible that the enigmas were discovered before 2006. Heck, I know if I were in Mark's shoes, and I had discovered a new morph like that, I would try to keep it a secret as long as possible while trying to make as many of them as I could. Then when I finally did release it, I would sell those hot new babies for as much as I could get. From a businessman's stand point, it just seems to be the most profitable way to do it. Especially the way hype can get spread over the internet anymore. Not to talk down about the way he does business, he is very successful at what he does, and theres a reason for it.

What I guess I'm trying to say is that 2006 might have been the year of the official "release" of the Enigma, as opposed to the "discovery".

Matt

 

[elphani]

@ Gregg: are you refering to the White&Yellow? As far as I know did they pop up in 1996 and were released in 2002 in western Europe. But they differ from the Enigma - the eyes look normal (I only know them from Fotos).
Or do you mean there have been real Enigmas in Europe before 2006?

 

[paulnj]

From my understanding Mark Bell had them for atleast a few season prior to 2006 and I do believe that info was posted on this site more than once.

 

[boutiquegecko]

That's correct-so that's why more than just het bells etc were available come 2007.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

From what I understand the Enigmas might not have even originated in the Bells collection at all... Not saying who my source is but lets just say that the Enigmas have been in Europe since before 2006...

This is only heresay. The 'white and yellow' geckos that originated in Europe have not been proven to be the same morph as the Enigma.

 

[Gregg M]

This is only heresay. The 'white and yellow' geckos that originated in Europe have not been proven to be the same morph as the Enigma.

True Marcia, thats why I said "might not have originated in the Bells collection"...
It would be interesting to find out either way... They are also calling them calicos in Europe...
From what I understand, they do have eyes very much like Enigmas...

 

[dprince]

I wonder if there are any pictures of "calicos" around?

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Originally w-a-a-a-y before they were ever marketed, Mark Bell called his enigmas 'calicos'. Kelli suggested calling them 'enigmas', and Mark liked the name. So it stuck.

 

[Gregg M]

Originally w-a-a-a-y before they were ever marketed, Mark Bell called his enigmas 'calicos'.

Hmmm, things are starting to come together... Marcia, I am going to write a couple of emails... I will try to get to the bottom of things... From what I am being told, the line originated in Europe... I will look more into it and let you know what my findings and conclusions are...

 

[boutiquegecko]

I'd like to see some pics of this "calico" too. And any results of breedings from them-do they behave like enigmas?

 

[Gregg M]

do they behave like enigmas?

You mean, do they circle???:main_laugh:

 

[Wezul]

White & Yellow

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=17936
Looks very pretty, and alot like an Enigma to me. But the eyes don't look the same.

-ps. first time posting a link, so if it doesn't work sorry.

 

[dprince]

Looks VERY nice, but not like an enigma (to me personally.) I agree Wezul, the eyes are definitely not enigma-y.

 

[bro paul]

I wonder if there are any pictures of "calicos" around?

Here's a thread posted a while back with a link to some of the best photos I've seen of them. Although some of the adults do look very enigma-ish...I think the babies look a good bit different from the typical enigma hatchlings we're used to now. What do ya'll think?

http://www.geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=14813&highlight=calico

 

[SaSobek]

IMO the enigma could have come from the white and yellow. maybe it did maybe it didnt. in any case only a handful of people would know for sure. and i dont think that they would tell that many people and if they did tell any one and that person told the world. would people belive it?

they are very beautiful geckos both of them. i am happy to be working with the enigma and wish i could get my hands on some white and yellows to do some testing. i think at some point we will know but its just a little early yet.

 

[paulnj]

Has anyone bred the W&Y to a different morph and gotten a homozygous W&Y outcross yet?

 

[boutiquegecko]

That's what I'd likr to know too. That way some "real" facts and figures can start to get added up comparing the two morphs.
I'm not a member of that other board so can't see the pics, I'll go searching. From that pic here though, the eyes look different. I guess maybe Mark could have imported a group that had the same gene and when crossed with what ever he's breeding out popped the enigma?
I wonder is it the w&y causing some of the recent topics on "where did the enigma come from. It just sems like a lot of people are second guessing what we know of where the enigma started or saying it's not true at all.

Has anyone crossed an enigma x wy to see the outcome?

 

[Gregg M]

Marlo, I tried to send you a PM earlier but your box is full... I do not think the info on the Enigmas origin is 100% false but I do feel that there has been some bending of the truth... The thing is, no matter how small a lie or cover-up is, the truth will always surface at some point even if it takes a bit of coaxing to get it out...
I feel the line originated in Europe and was imported into the US... I am just going to get the facts straight and post my findings either way... If I am wrong I will post it as fast as I would if I am right...
There is nothing wrong with questioning even a large scale breeder... No one is 100% ethical... If we were, we would not even be keeping reptiles in captivity, never mind marketing them...

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

From that pic here though, the eyes look different. I guess maybe Mark could have imported a group that had the same gene and when crossed with what ever he's breeding out popped the enigma?

I feel the line originated in Europe and was imported into the US... I am just going to get the facts straight and post my findings either way... If I am wrong I will post it as fast as I would if I am right...

Perhaps it's the other way around??? Reptile Industries has been marketing to the Europeans for years! Could it be as simple as someone in Europe purchased some 'calicos' from the Bells awhile back, before they were a 'proven' genetic morph? It is entirely possible that a few of these 'calicos' were sold in Europe prior to Mark Bell having Kelli prove them out? There is a lot of speculation without facts going on here...

I would like to remind everyone (myself included) that this thread is borderline being within the limits of the TOS regarding discussion regarding a breeder/business ethics. The administration here at GF will be watching this thread, and will close it if it breaks the rules. Thanks...

 

[Gregg M]

Perhaps it's the other way around??? Reptile Industries has been marketing to the Europeans for years! Could it be as simple as someone in Europe purchased some 'calicos'

Yeah, I thought of that already but the info I gathered so far suggests that I am on the right track with my thinking...