POLL - NAMING MORPHS

[Ipsl]

The "Enigma" is not a linebred trait (unlike tangerines), it is a genetic morph. The "RAPTOR" is not a linebred trait (unlike tangerines), it is a genetic morph. So your comparison would be like comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion.

Well part of the RAPTOR is linebred.. thats what makes it so hard to calculate genetically. And thats what makes it so confusing.

 

[A&M Gecko]

The "Enigma" is not a linebred trait (unlike tangerines), it is a genetic morph. The "RAPTOR" is not a linebred trait (unlike tangerines), it is a genetic morph. So your comparison would be like comparing apples to orange, in my opinion.

Every genetic morph can be line bred as well. I have been linebreeding raptors for 3 years for more orange and carrot tail. I consider my raptors line bred as well. Here again we do not agree.

In my opinion, you can't have it both ways... either you can name a morph or you can not. You can not make consessions for specific animals, traits or breeders. It is ok to name this ... but not this. I think that is a cop out.

Myself, having named a morph, believe that you can call an animal whatever you want. Getting other people to call it the same thing is an honor and show of respect. You don't have to comply or conform. This has been the way science and the world at large has worked since way back. You don't have to agree with it, that is your option/opinion but it is the way the world works.

I think Jeremy this is the option I would have chosen, well said. :main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup: :main_thumbsup:
Alberto

 

[ByRandom]

I have been linebreeding raptors for 3 years for more orange and carrot tail.

I had actually added that to my previous post but it ended up getting deleted. No clue where it actually went. :main_robin:

My opinion is based on whether or not a genetic morph combined with another genetic morph should be renamed. In my opinion, it should not. If you breed a RAPTOR with a Tangerine, and then the resulting offspring back to a RAPTOR, you will eventually produce a RAPTOR.

However, if you breed a Tangerine to High Yellow, and breed the resulting offspring back to the same High Yellow, eventually you will stop producing any sort of Tangerine. Of course, all of the named for Linebred tangerines have always had "Tangerine" in the name. "HG Tangerines", "Electric Tangerines", etc.

If you cross a genetic morph A with a genetic morph B and call it "The Yankee Morph" with no indication of genetic morph A and/or genetic morph B, it makes things a lot more complicated.

 

[boutiquegecko]

If you cross a genetic morph A with a genetic morph B and call it "The Yankee Morph" with no indication of genetic morph A and/or genetic morph B, it makes things a lot more complicated.[/QUOTE]

Exactly what I guess I've been trying to say. Also the tangs are not renamed-they have words in front stating the diff line that these people worked years on to create to stand out in the amount of orange/red the leo has. I'm all for someone taking credit w/ a new name, but as long as the line has been proven/stands out etc from the others. Or hatches out an actual new genetic mutation.

 

[A&M Gecko]

My opinion is based on whether or not a genetic morph combined with another genetic morph should be renamed. In my opinion, it should not. If you breed a RAPTOR with a Tangerine, and then the resulting offspring back to a RAPTOR, you will eventually produce a RAPTOR.

If you breed a raptor to a tangerine and then the offspring to each other you hatch some raptors but at the same time you hatch something new, is the fusion of the 2 morphs, raptor and hypo in one animal. The name raptor cannot be used alone for this fusion, so here is were people have the choice, they can either call them hypo raptors or chose to find a new name for this combo morph. If you breed a Labrador to a doodle you get labradudle or you can call it cross from Labrador and doodle (I do not know the right spelling of those), then labradudle gets line breed and to some standards that makes them win dog shows. Is the best sample I have for you here. What about pitbull, do you know that is another cross and the new name has nothing to do with the name of the 2 dog used to get them.
Alberto

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Disclaimer - "This is only my opinion, everyone has one, this is mine".


In my opinion, you can't have it both ways... either you can name a morph or you can not. You can not make consessions for specific animals, traits or breeders. It is ok to name this ... but not this. I think that is a cop out.

Myself, having named a morph, believe that you can call an animal whatever you want. Getting other people to call it the same thing is an honor and show of respect. You don't have to comply or conform. This has been the way science and the world at large has worked since way back. You don't have to agree with it, that is your option/opinion but it is the way the world works.

EXACTLY! Jeremy is right on the money with this. People should take note and realize that all the bickering and holier than thou opinions about what you should name and what you should not name starts to make the community as a whole look ignorant, petty, and generally comical... IMHO.

PS. I didn't vote because I didn't like the choices.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Getting other people to call it the same thing is an honor and show of respect.

I totally agree with this!!!

People should take note and realize that all the bickering and holier than thou opinions about what you should name and what you should not name starts to make the community as a whole look ignorant, petty, and generally comical... IMHO.

I disagree with this! So far, I haven't seen any bickering... just leopard gecko keepers expressing their opinions in a professional and respectful manner. I think the poll shows how important it is to the community that there is a need to realize and address that with all the new combination morphs that are being created now, that we make a collective and cooperative effort to make it easier to be able to understand just what all the names mean. I see nothing "ignorant, petty, and generally comical" about it at all!

 

[Franks_Geckos]

Judging by how many views as this thread has had so far, I am a bit surprised by how few votes there are on the topic (relative to the number of views). I wonder if some people:
1.do not think there are enough choices to vote on,
2.do not agree with the wording of some or are afraid to commit to just one, or,
3 really are not as concerned with what a gecko morph is named as much as they are concerned with what the gecko actually looks like or who they are getting them from?

As interesting as this thread is, I don’t think there will ever be standardized names for morphs and to pursue such a standard will probably only be an exercise in futility. By and large, I am sure the majority of the leopard gecko breeding community would rather hatch out or see something really amazing hatch out than worry about what they are going to name it or if the name will do the morph justice based on it’s appearance.

 

[KelliH]

OK, first of all, are there some posts that were here before that are now missing? Steve said he was on here early this morning and that some of the posts are missing now. Is this true?

Secondly, I closed the "Black Hole" thread because it was getting pretty heated. For now I will leave this one open, but please please keep it respectful.

Thirdly, my opinion is that combo morphs should be called what they are ie. Mack Snow Enigma, Rapor Enigma, Patternless Albino, etc. If other people want to give them weird names that's up to them. It seems silly to me, but that's just one person's (mine) opinion. I thought calling a Tremper Albino Blizzard a "Blazing Blizzard" was stupid but hey, I'm not the one that decided to do that so whatever.

Tangerines keep coming up I noticed, and I can't speak for everyone that has a line of tangs, but for my Electric Tangerines, I added the Electric to the name just to distinguish them from some of the other lines (Urban, Albey etc). They were given this name because the first really kick ass one I hatched out I named Electra, hence all her offspring are "Electric" Tangs. It's not like I called them "Explosions" or "Shoting Stars" or something. They are still Tangs. I could have just called them HISS tangs, it would be the same thing.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Judging by how many views as this thread has had so far, I am a bit surprised by how few votes there are on the topic (relative to the number of views). I wonder if some people:
1.do not think there are enough choices to vote on,
2.do not agree with the wording of some or are afraid to commit to just one, or,
3 really are not as concerned with what a gecko morph is named as much as they are concerned with what the gecko actually looks like or who they are getting them from?

Well, so far there are 79 members that cast their votes, and I don't think we could accurately compare that number relative the number of thread views. I, for one, have viewed this thread at least 20 times. I suspect most who have participated in this thread/poll have looked at it multiple times as well.

Since I'm the one that started this POLL, forgive me if I did not include the vote option(s) that accurately express the opinion(s) of how any one individual might feel... I tried to word them in the most general terms/categories that the majority of people might relate to. Those who don't find a category that best exemplifies their opinion can post here on this thread if they choose to.

We ALL have a choice whether or not to vote or post on this thread... nobody is getting strong-armed to participate.

 

[KelliH]

OK, about the posts being deleted, Steve got confused about the two threads (Black Hole and this one). See what happens when I listen to him??? (I love you, Honey).. ;-)

 

[malt_geckos]

I would like to choose more than one. lol. I don't think combo morphs should have a special name. Call it what it is, not something else. But I also think that if we are going to have special names for combos and linebred traits, then we should all use the same names no matter what our ego (actually would be our Id ) tells us otherwise.

And I also feel this way about the names: As we come up with new genetic morphs, we will have to dub them new names. Our world is constantly changing and needing updated. There will always be growth and I think that we all need to realize that we will constantly be learning new things about the genetics of our geckos.

 

[GroovyGeckos.com]

This is long...

I agree it would be nice if we as breeders would pay attention to other people`s feelings on naming combo-morphs. For the most part these type of names seem to be frowned upon, and well if someone cares, I`de think they would make informed decisions, with the help of others. It surely is something that can be changed to make it easier for everyone, not just for the breeder. Sounds a bit like people are more interested in naming their own morph, and making things easier for themselves? I dunno. What is the purpose? I do not think having all these new names is going to benefit the people who matter the most. Those are the people interested in them and their genetics, of course.

Just think, we now have a "cremesicle" (Hypo Mack Snow), and a "dreamsickle"(I seriously forgot the combo allready, sorry), and they are not even related to one another.

This is carried over from the other thread:

you or anyone else cannot make people do what you wish to make things easier.

No, but anyone can make things easier by doing what is considered "standard" in this industry. They can also be "different", and make things more complicated. I feel that Marcia(alot of others here, and myself) only want what is best, not to take away from anything you guys have done.

I think that was the point of getting peoples opinions here in this thread, so we can see what the "standard" is/should be. Whether or not you take it into consideration, is up to you guys. :main_yes:

And for Jeremy:

Jeremy, I feel you did a great job, but you named a Rainwater Red Stripe, a Raining Red Stripe. It is pretty much the same thing, and still describes the genetics. *Applause* You did not "rename" the combo, which makes alot of difference here. That is like comparing apples to oranges, when we are talking about completely different, unrelated names for combinations of morphs, which allready have names.

All of those different Tang lines, are just that, and noone has left that part of their genetics out of the name. That is why it is "ok" that those breeders have their own "tag" for them, plus they have put enough work into them to call them "their own" lines. So noone has really "renamed" them, and they have earned their right to have a distinguishing title. Again, that is a far cry, from naming a totally new morph, and it being "ok" to "rename" a combo morph.

Just in general:

Since we can do whatever we like, what if I decided the first Super Hypo Mack Snow I hatched, deserved a totally new name? Then each combination, in all of it`s different Albino, Blizzard, and Patternless forms? Everyone would probably say OMG this guy is nuts! LOL I say this kind of jokingly, because I did actually call it a "hysnow"(Hypo Snow, one word). It was not like a public unveiling, "here look I made a hysno", it was more of just something I used for myself, and kept it between a few friends, my mother, and I.

.. but I do have some loud babies, maybe I will breed the loudest ones together, then call them "screamsicles".

 

[bleeding_sarcasm]

"screamsicles" I love it. Make a biting one too, those are my favorites. I <3 deathrolls.

About the dreamsicles, I understand where you are comming from, I would probably be less-resistant about combo names, if we kept them consistent. A tang/hypo snow is a creamsicle, right? Well then why not make an enigma tang/hypo snow a dreamsicle? then they are remotely related, and if I already know what a creamsicle is, then it is a fair assumption as to what a dreamsicle is [similar to a creamsicle, but a step up, and better]

If you dig the star names, thats cool, But as I was saying in the other thread, There are novas, and Super novas, why not relate them to the only co-dominant leopard gecko morph, mack snows. So lets say a Mack snow raptor enigma is a Nova, then a super snow mack raptor enigma would be a super nova. People may not know what a nova is just based on its name alone [i couldnt tell you off the top of my head, i know its an enigma/raptor something... i think] but if you knew what that was, then a super nova would be second nature. oh, its like a super snow, but totally radder [made up word? maybe. hahah]

 

[Franks_Geckos]

I feel there is a difference between people just making up different new names for existing morphs (genetic mutations, line bred traits or combo morphs for that matter) than someone creating a name for something they have hatched before anyone else. In a perfect world, people wouldn’t be confused by all the names that exist. In reality, there is confusion for some people, and that is understandable. It seems, however, that there is some bias against people naming combo morphs in this thread. That’s fine. Everyone can agree to disagree. I for one feel there are too many names out there too, but I won’t hold it against someone for creating a new name for a NEW combo morph that they hatched first. Whether everyone likes a new morph name or not, it doesn’t take away from the fact that someone else hatched it first and deserves to be recognized for doing it first. I think people can be influenced by the opinions of others when naming a morph, but, there isn’t anything anyone can do to stop anyone from naming a morph what they want and I am sure people will still line up to buy something that is really cool, regardless of what it is called. There are probably way too many egos involved in the gecko breeding community (a portion of which probably never or rarely even visit this forum mind you) to ever come to a standardized naming system, so people should just learn to deal with it.

 

[dprince]

I agree it would be nice if we as breeders would pay attention to other people`s feelings on naming combo-morphs. For the most part these type of names seem to be frowned upon, and well if someone cares, I`de think they would make informed decisions, with the help of others. It surely is something that can be changed to make it easier for everyone, not just for the breeder. Sounds a bit like people are more interested in naming their own morph, and making things easier for themselves? I dunno. What is the purpose? I do not think having all these new names is going to benefit the people who matter the most. Those are the people interested in them and their genetics, of course.

Just think, we now have a "cremesicle" (Hypo Mack Snow), and a "dreamsickle"(I seriously forgot the combo allready, sorry), and they are not even related to one another.

This is carried over from the other thread:

No, but anyone can make things easier by doing what is considered "standard" in this industry. They can also be "different", and make things more complicated. I feel that Marcia(alot of others here, and myself) only want what is best, not to take away from anything you guys have done.

I think that was the point of getting peoples opinions here in this thread, so we can see what the "standard" is/should be. Whether or not you take it into consideration, is up to you guys. :main_yes:

And for Jeremy:

Jeremy, I feel you did a great job, but you named a Rainwater Red Stripe, a Raining Red Stripe. It is pretty much the same thing, and still describes the genetics. *Applause* You did not "rename" the combo, which makes alot of difference here. That is like comparing apples to oranges, when we are talking about completely different, unrelated names for combinations of morphs, which allready have names.

All of those different Tang lines, are just that, and noone has left that part of their genetics out of the name. That is why it is "ok" that those breeders have their own "tag" for them, plus they have put enough work into them to call them "their own" lines. So noone has really "renamed" them, and they have earned their right to have a distinguishing title. Again, that is a far cry, from naming a totally new morph, and it being "ok" to "rename" a combo morph.

Just in general:

Since we can do whatever we like, what if I decided the first Super Hypo Mack Snow I hatched, deserved a totally new name? Then each combination, in all of it`s different Albino, Blizzard, and Patternless forms? Everyone would probably say OMG this guy is nuts! LOL I say this kind of jokingly, because I did actually call it a "hysnow"(Hypo Snow, one word). It was not like a public unveiling, "here look I made a hysno", it was more of just something I used for myself, and kept it between a few friends, my mother, and I.

.. but I do have some loud babies, maybe I will breed the loudest ones together, then call them "screamsicles".

Hey, I though *I* had the screamsicles!! :main_laugh:

Dan, I completely agree. Very well said. :main_thumbsup:

If people want to continue to name combo morphs fancy names that have nothing to do with their genetics, so be it. I won't lose sleep over it; I can totally *deal* with it. This thread is just about *opinions*, which is interesting to discuss (I think) because I really am interested in all different perspectives. And I respect that other people may have different opinions than me. To each, their own.

 

[dprince]

Oh rats, off to research........

 

[Jenna4Herps]

... then we should all use the same names no matter what our ego (actually would be our Id ) ...

The "I in the Me." George Herbert Mead You are right! Lol. To correctly term it, it is definitely the "Id" involved rather than ego. Mead has awesome work.

In regard to the issue at hand though, I didn't vote either because I'm not sure my thoughts on this applied. I have found the posts an interesting read however. My thoughts are that any line bred morphs by any particular breeder or newly found genetics in morphs should be easy for the community as a whole. Especially for those who are new to the leopard gecko world.

I'm not against naming, nor am I really for it either. Sounds like a cop-out, but my reasons are this - naming something other than what the genetic make-up reveals can be dangerous for the breeding community. If people aren't careful when they choose mates and do not fully understand the genetic make-up for a made up word describing the morph, mistakes can happen, morphs may be sold as something they are not by others, and it makes it difficult for people to understand what they are purchasing. I personally find names like the RAPTOR easier because the genetics are right in the name itself.

When I see a SHCT for sale, I know it is a super hypo carrot tail leopard gecko. If I see a MSS for sale, I know it's a Mack Super Snow. If I saw an "Orange Blossom" for sale, I'd go, "what is an Orange Blossom?" Then I would have to search the net or rely on the seller to accurately let me know what the genetics are behind the "Orange Blossom." Then, we have to remember it and record it accurately for future mating potentials. We are assuming that anyone purchasing a leopard gecko will know and be able to distinguish between all the names that any breeder places on their offspring.

I agree with Jeremy that through time, a named morph will catch on in time through respect and knowledge of the breeder who first named the morph. But we all have to recognize as well, the danger involved when multiple breeders name the same morph something new and the confusion it can bring. Therefore, this is the reason I have not voted. We have new breakthroughs happening with genetics, especially with the enigma morph with many breeders working on various projects. I have respect for those who have worked long and hard in producing new lines, but I also see potential for confusion among leopard gecko owners/purchasers when it comes to naming the morphs as they are revealed. Make it easy, make it recognizable, make it simple. When naming a "new" morph, think about how people can relate the name to the genetics, ie. Dan's Raining Red Stripe (Rainwater Red Stripe line). If all breeders did this, there would be less confusion, an easier way to say the "name" without a string of genetic labels, AND a way to remember what each morph is. It would also give respect and recognition to the breeder who first hatched out the new line and/or genetics.

That is IMHO.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

Great post, Jenna!

 

[dprince]

Excellent points, Jenna!! Man, I wish I could write that well.......maybe I need more coffee..........:main_laugh: