The Giant Debate???

[eric]

Nev with the event that occurred i don't believe that others will be willing to participate. I don't believe that anyone is willing to put themselves out there sharing info that they have gathered from external/internal sources to make enemies with the site admin or anyone else that has the power to ban you.

Why? I shared on what limited info I had. No one should be scared or threatened. Thats just crazy:dizzy2:. Plane and simple rules were broken!

 

[nevinm]

thank you ryan, and i wouldnt say it was crazy eric, i can see what he is saying. but thats not the point!!!

GIANTS!!!!

 

[PacHerp]

Lets all just take about 5 steps back, breathe... and come back to this discussion once we have all cooled off a little?

I was enjoying reading the content in this thread... there is some very useful information posted here, and I would like for this thread (or something similar) to continue the topics discussed here.

 

[nevinm]

believe me if i keep going around in circles with my self trying to get answeres our of people, im going to start a new thried and hope we can be more civilized. i wish people would stop saying the same things....... and again....


GIANTS people GIANTS!!!!

 

[Nigel4less]

believe me if i keep going around in circles with my self trying to get answeres our of people, im going to start a new thried and hope we can be more civilized. i wish people would stop saying the same things....... and again....


GIANTS people GIANTS!!!!

I agree with Nevin, GIANT talk

 

[nevinm]

so nigel, my questions pertain to you as well since you dont think it exists. how big were your biggest geckos 10 years ago? wieght, leangth?

 

[Nigel4less]

so nigel, my questions pertain to you as well since you dont think it exists. how big were your biggest geckos 10 years ago? wieght, leangth?

I had no Geckos 10 years ago, but 7 years ago my adults were around 50 grams.

 

[nevinm]

so that being said, why were these geckos coming from this line averaging 110 grams even as late as 7 years ago. these animals coming from animals that were normal size.. so even if they were line breed to be bigger, there were still animals that were coming in to play that did come from an old enough blood line to be line breed.

 

[dprince]

Nev with the event that occurred i don't believe that others will be willing to participate. I don't believe that anyone is willing to put themselves out there sharing info that they have gathered from external/internal sources to make enemies with the site admin or anyone else that has the power to ban you.

But on the giant note i wish you good luck buddy. I believe that there is potential, it just has to have the data to back it up.

No one was banned for having different opinions. People were banned for breaking the TOS over and over again, despite previous warnings, both formal AND informal. Believe me, we ALL have different and sometimes passionately different opinions about things, and that doesn't get people banned. If you don't believe me, you should really check out the archives.

I really hope people will continue to post their experiences/feelings/etc. - no matter how different they may be - in a respectful, thoughtful way. I know many of us enjoy thought provoking conversations, even if we don't always agree on the subjects at hand.

That being said, I have a 103 gram enigma male that has no giant genes what so ever - and he is NOT fat. His offspring have not followed in his footsteps.......and he had PLENTY of offspring last season. So........is he an anomoly, or is he a giant that doesn't pass on those genes?

 

[Gregg M]

so that being said, why were these geckos coming from this line averaging 110 grams even as late as 7 years ago.

Two words Nev....
Eublepharis angramainyu....
Dude, look at the patterns of pure E. angramainyu... If those are not the patterns of the original giant line, I dont know what is...:main_thumbsup:

Now what are the true genetics behind the Eublepharis angramainyu size is still what needs to be worked out...

 

[eric]

How long has the E. Angramainyu been around? I thought in Kelli's post on another site in 2005 they were talking about it. I could be wrong.

And with all you've that deal with the European market can they be brought in. I want one!

 

[nevinm]

debie that explains exactly what im saying. most times, not matter how big the animals are they still produce normal sized babies.

gregg even if thats it it still means the gene is there. on the other hand, and im not quoting any one but as far as i kno theres no recond or the Mr t getting any of them

 

[eric]

Also it was said ealier that the E.Angramainyu wasn't a prolific breeder and isn't sexually mature until about two to three years of age. In theory wouldn't out crossing change this? Also does anyone have an up to date Photo?

 

[KelliH]

Nev with the event that occurred i don't believe that others will be willing to participate. I don't believe that anyone is willing to put themselves out there sharing info that they have gathered from external/internal sources to make enemies with the site admin or anyone else that has the power to ban you.

But on the giant note i wish you good luck buddy. I believe that there is potential, it just has to have the data to back it up.

The guy broke TOS, it has nothing to do with making enemies. Why is that so difficult to understand?

 

[Baoh]

Anyone, please feel free to link to a pic or pics of Giants that have the characteristic angramainyu head markings.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

marcia, i am confused by what you are saying just a little bit. are you admitting that there is a giant gene, and it has just unknowingly been watered down? or are you saying that that you just dont believe it exists? please dont take that he wrong way marcia, i really am asking.

Nevin, at this point I really don't have an opinion. I am a skeptic, especially when I consider the circumstances in which this morph was originally introduced and marketed. I have seen geckos that are L-O-N-G and really look bigger than the average 'fat' leopard gecko. What concerns me is that if there are truly Giants out there, many of these morphs ('if' they are a true morph), have and their genetics totally ruined by trying to cross and bred them as a recessive trait... which we know they are not. We need to go back to the basics, which I believe you are trying to do, and start from scratch to define what a Giant tuly is!

Also, it is the E. fuscus that is the largest Eublepharid in the Middle East. If this was the morph that was used to create the 'Giants', then a pure E. fuscus can take up to 3 years to become sexually mature. There is no way the originator of the Giant morphs waited 3 years to 'prove' this out.

Second, I would like to address that (like with the X-Files) "I want to believe!!!" But I just cant get my jaws around something that IMO was never really proven out, and who's genetics have now been diluted for the most part. "if " there are true genetic Giants still out there, I hope with all my heart that the folks that are working with them will let 'ethics' outweigh the need to mass produce and sell them. This is much to important and valuable to the Leopard Gecko community at large to llet this opportunity to slip through the crakcs a second teim!

 

[nevinm]

marcia, you cleared up your oppinion very well. im proud of you j/k lol... any way i think you. and i am more accepting of you saying you are a skeptic than just saying you dont believe it.

 

[Golden Gate Geckos]

LOL, Nevin... I said I was a 'skeptic' from my very first post on this thread. I give you a big 'thumbs up' for taking that extra mile upon ourself to do the work that should have been done a long time ago!

 

[nevinm]

i understand now marcia. it was just the way it was said and the way i took it as being more sarcastic. i read into it more than what was there in your original post. it came across more of i just dont think its real. so i am sorry for that

 

[Jorgevill]

I just want to say I just learn lot's of things from this thread, about the fighting, this is a forum, like Kelli says she opened this forum so we can help with information, learn more about genetics and other stuff, I have entered this forum and is great, lots of cool people I have meet, I know more things about it, and for me is important because I can look at more morphs or information that in my country (Mexico) not known yet, for sure this forum has very valuable information, thanks.

Greetings, JVC.