Enigmas.

[infamousJokeR]

Ya know, though, it's a free market world now. What's the motivation to spend all that money to do the research necessary to possibly damn the morph to futility when you could just keep on going on and only sell the good ones? Folks gotta be motivated, methinks, and they're not.

...and that's what it comes down too. $$$$.

 

[Gecko Euphoria]

I have bred multiple generations of enigmas, I have had them since they very first came out and actually the first ones I purchased were really bad they are the wobblyest geckos there are they have head tilting and everything .They are still thriveing today, the key with them is to offer as least stress as possible, and you have to hand feed and help them, but they do just fine I have not lost an enigma yet, and its been a quite a few years, I never bred the ones with the really bad signs. But the first generations of enigmas I bred were showing mild to overly mild signs when stressed. I"ve been out crossing them and I can honestly tell you that the succes rate of none to very little symptoms is very high. I would say for me its not even 2 out of every 10 show severe signs, most are completely normal or show tiny amounts of symptoms when stressed. I have held back some from each generation and they are to this day still acting fine. So I think it can be bred mostly out I'm positive there will always be a few that pop up every once and a while, but the new hatclings and outcrossings with each season seem to get better and better each year. I wouldnt let this overblown problem stop me from owning one of these beautiful animals they are not all severely mis balanced you can find some that are completly fine and normal and even if you get the spinners or wobblers they can live normal healthy lives it just takes more work and understanding there exact needs. Hope this helps I have been breeding and studying them since they very first became availible, and I would say they are absolutly the most beatiful ehancement to the gecko world you could add to your collection, the sky's the limit with enigmas you never know what kind of gems going to pop out of an egg they never cease to amaze me.

Who here has has success with them? Has anyone bred multiple generations of enigmas without (let's say, very drastic) enigma problems? I thought I recalled, from a few conversations I've had about this, that a few people have, but I could be wrong.

 

[bman123]

It's a shame they have problems they do amazing things to combos. Just like said before it's like the spider ball python it's nuerological and it won't go away. It's something that should be present in every enigma. Just because you haven't seen the
head tilt or circle doesn't mean they don't do it when your sleeping and they are in their rack.
It's really is a shame they have problems..

 

[Northstar Herp]

I have bred multiple generations of enigmas, I have had them since they very first came out and actually the first ones I purchased were really bad they are the wobblyest geckos there are they have head tilting and everything .They are still thriveing today, the key with them is to offer as least stress as possible, and you have to hand feed and help them, but they do just fine I have not lost an enigma yet, and its been a quite a few years, I never bred the ones with the really bad signs. But the first generations of enigmas I bred were showing mild to overly mild signs when stressed. I"ve been out crossing them and I can honestly tell you that the succes rate of none to very little symptoms is very high. I would say for me its not even 2 out of every 10 show severe signs, most are completely normal or show tiny amounts of symptoms when stressed. I have held back some from each generation and they are to this day still acting fine. So I think it can be bred mostly out I'm positive there will always be a few that pop up every once and a while, but the new hatclings and outcrossings with each season seem to get better and better each year. I wouldnt let this overblown problem stop me from owning one of these beautiful animals they are not all severely mis balanced you can find some that are completly fine and normal and even if you get the spinners or wobblers they can live normal healthy lives it just takes more work and understanding there exact needs. Hope this helps I have been breeding and studying them since they very first became availible, and I would say they are absolutly the most beatiful ehancement to the gecko world you could add to your collection, the sky's the limit with enigmas you never know what kind of gems going to pop out of an egg they never cease to amaze me.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Thanks so much for sharing your personal experience. Who's next?

 

[ILoveGeckos14]

People have given thier opinions and experiences many :http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=57408&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=57291&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=55841&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=55514&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=53380&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49990&highlight=enigma+syndrome
Many: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49537&highlight=enigmas
MANY: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=48258&highlight=enigmas
MANY TIMES: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=37950&highlight=enigmas

LOL so you can see this has already been discussed and cannot really go any further until someone continues the research that Kelli started.

 

[Northstar Herp]

People have given thier opinions and experiences many :http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=57408&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=57291&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=55841&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=55514&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=53380&highlight=enigmas
Many:http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49990&highlight=enigma+syndrome
Many: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=49537&highlight=enigmas
MANY: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=48258&highlight=enigmas
MANY TIMES: http://geckoforums.net/showthread.php?t=37950&highlight=enigmas

LOL so you can see this has already been discussed and cannot really go any further until someone continues the research that Kelli started.

95% of those threads I read (the first 50% of them) were all "I think..." not personal experience. I'm not looking for "I thinks" but "I have experienced", and that's something I haven't seen much of.

I'm gonna go back to reading those threads, thanks for posting them. :main_thumbsup:

 

[robin]

i am personally working with two enigmas who only exhibit symptoms when stress. one was fine until she ovulated. i have spoken with a couple of breeders who have worked with them for years and tell me generally after they finish ovulating or breeding they go back to "normal". i am documenting these guys for my own experience. the other is only a few weeks old and i want to see if he grows out of it.

 

[bman123]

They are very pretty and do wonders on combos, it's a shame tho because like the spider ball python they both make very nice combo morphs. I don't think you can breed it out, if it's neurological like the spider ball python it would be luck of the draw right?

 

[rubym]

I have yet to get an enigma due the fact that quite frankly I have a difficult time with culling my animals. Dont get me wrong, I have had to do so in the past and it broke my heart. I personally couldnt work with a morph that I knew would more then likely produce babies that I would have to cull. I agree that the only way to find a solution to a problem is to work with the problem gene and figure out what is happening but I think that I personaly will leave that up to the breeders that have more experience then I do and can "take a hard line" to the issue.....unfortunatly I am a marshmellow. Hence why I have my 5 "special" needs babies ( 1 was hatched with a leg issue and 4 were adopted).

 

[Northstar Herp]

I have yet to get an enigma due the fact that quite frankly I have a difficult time with culling my animals. Dont get me wrong, I have had to do so in the past and it broke my heart. I personally couldnt work with a morph that I knew would more then likely produce babies that I would have to cull. I agree that the only way to find a solution to a problem is to work with the problem gene and figure out what is happening but I think that I personaly will leave that up to the breeders that have more experience then I do and can "take a hard line" to the issue.....unfortunatly I am a marshmellow. Hence why I have my 5 "special" needs babies ( 1 was hatched with a leg issue and 4 were adopted).

Ruby, your leos look plenty heathy to me You must have the magic touch.

 

[robin]

95% of those threads I read (the first 50% of them) were all "I think..." not personal experience. I'm not looking for "I thinks" but "I have experienced", and that's something I haven't seen much of.

I'm gonna go back to reading those threads, thanks for posting them. :main_thumbsup:

in those threads look for kelli's experience since she has hatched out probably more enigmas than ANY of us have.

 

[ddkgeckos]

Does anyone know what 2 leos produced the first ever enigma. Did bell ever release this info?

 

[bman123]

I'm gonna really look close, but I've never noticed anything with mine. Just to be sure, I'm looking for wobbly legs, head tilting, circling... anything else?

The problem is you don't watch it 24/7 I guarantee they do it when we are sleeping or not looking. You know what I mean. I won't believe any who says their enigma doesn't show any symptoms at all until they video tape the Leo for a month non stop 24/7.

My spider ball python never did it infront of me and I always thought he that's cool he isn't spinning. I got up one night at 3:30am to use the bathroom and looked in his tank. He was corckscrewing in the tank. From that point on I will continue to believe that every spider ball python and now enigma Leo does it at some time but we don't notice it or some people may not ever admit it..